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The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

tomforth.co.uk

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Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#51

Post by maest »

ggm wrote: post #38
i2km wrote: post #18

Simple answer: no. The economy of SE England is largely comprised of: 1. Shuffling money around 2. Socialist-level ponzi government spending 3. A combination of property flipping and high-end property overseas sales used for tax evasion Innovation-wise, always looking for the easy wins without the hard work, unlike the US. As a Brit and former resident, happy to have emigrated and escaped the >50% (soon to be increas…

> As a Brit and former resident, happy to have emigrated and escaped the >50% (soon to be increased) tax rates. Hah. So you don't believe in the Scandi high-tax economy, or the Dutch one? Resentment of taxation is a perquisite of the rich, overwhelmingly. In fact, most people who are not rich pay reasonable rates of taxation except they pay far more percentage of their income as VAT/consumption taxes, which is of cou…

> they pay far more percentage of their income as VAT/consumption taxes, which is of course nothing like 50%

I don't think that's true, unless you assume rich people either a. spend a lower percentage of their income (in which case, what's the point in having money) or b. they avoid VAT when they do spend.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#52

Post by JumpCrisscross »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #48
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public transport does certainly help and it’ll increase GDP; but I highly doubt it’s the determinant in creating the richest country per capita in the world The UK is geographically blessed. That hasn’t been an advantage recently, because the EU seemed to be working, but Alexander Hamilton’s arguments against loose political unions seem prescient as ever amidst Europe’s present rightwing lurch [1]. If Britain can g…

The image thrown around in UK media about Singapore has nothing to do with Singapore

> image thrown around in UK media about Singapore has nothing to do with Singapore

Because the U.K.’s role wouldn’t be identical to Singapore. The analogy is fine. Singapore exists between China, Southeast Asia and the world; Britain between America, Europe and the world. Singapore has a logistical advantage in its proximity to the Straits; Britain a financial advantage in the City of London.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#53

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jasfi wrote: post #47
csomar wrote: post #31

The OP starts with a very wrong comparison; essentially comparing the London area with the American average. A proper comparison will be to compare it against the Washington or NYC metropolitan area. The numbers will be different. Then the article presents no arguments on how the UK can achieve such a feat other than having a bit better public transport. Public transport does certainly help and it’ll increase GDP; bu…

The problem I see is a mindset that doesn't value creators/makers. Why is public transport seen as the problem? Who can't make the next great thing because they can't get from A to B? With remote work that shouldn't even feature on a top 10 list. If you look at the US, there are always complaints about the public transport being way behind the UK/Europe. But they value creators/makers. Why not look to the US, which i…

> there are always complaints about the public transport being way behind the UK/Europe. But they value creators/makers

Those creators cluster around urban centres with good transport. You can’t remote found a battery plant.

I doubt Britain’s salvation is in public transport alone. But remote work doesn’t obviate the need for human infrastructure. (At the very least, it hasn’t been demonstrated at scale.)

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#54

Post by KingOfCoders »

testemailfordg2 wrote: post #17

Well the colonial mindset is still there, to reap benefits from the north (oil) as much as possible rather than making it self sufficient and stand up to London, Oxford and Cambridge triangle.

Yes, the UK is an empire, a much smaller one though. Scottish people haven't understood it the same way Indians did.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#55

Post by JumpCrisscross »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #50
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exploiting and stealing always makes you rich Colonies have Britain an edge, but plenty of nations had colonies at the time (and have throughout history). Britain became rich because it industrialised first.

No. Second: "Cotton Capital: a special investigation 2023 Cotton Capital how slavery made Manchester the world’s first industrial city" https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/apr/03/...

Again, plenty of civilisations across history had slaves, and many of Britain’s contemporaries did too.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#56

Post by throwup238 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #49
throwup238 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure these are comparable. Britain’s shift was led by its elites. Europe’s is closer to a dumping of its elites. What does that mean? How is a political party funded by a bunch of generational rich right wingers dumping elites? None of these right wing parties would exist without rich people funding them. They're not grassroots movements, regardless of how they try to portray themselves.

> How is a political party funded by a bunch of generational rich right wingers dumping elites? It’s a new set of elites. Starmer is still connected and conversant with the present batch of elites. > None of these right wing parties would exist without rich people funding them This is true of practically every revolution outside fairy tales. (It’s why fairy tales need divine intervention and/or superpowers to be beli…

What is the new set of elites in France and Germany? How are they different from the old batch of elites?

As far as I can tell, it's all the same donors and special interests. The only difference is in the rhetorical window dressing.

You might as well be comparing Lidl and Aldi.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#57

Post by cjbgkagh »

My prediction is that council taxes will be raised substantially out of necessity and the effect of this will lower house prices and reverse the 'wealth effect' which would impair peoples ability to pay that tax. The net effect is a further crushing the middle class. Lower per capita incomes, higher taxes, and a reverse wealth effect is not going to be a fun time.

Basically the government needs a lot of money and there are not many places to get it from, rich people have big houses so such wealth taxes would be more popular with the average voter - so I think they will do this out of a combination of necessity and ability. I wonder how I would find evidence in support for this belief in the data or train an algorithm to make similar predictions. I guess I'm sampling a model of my beliefs of how governments work. Reverse wealth effects have not happened in the west for a very long time so there are not many modern examples to template on - especially at a time when inflation of the money supply is an option.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#58

Post by Arn_Thor »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #44
KingOfCoders wrote: post #37

"In 1920, North England’s economy as a whole was among the strongest in Europe and thus the world." Exploiting and stealing always makes you rich. An empire doesn't make sense if you don't get rich with it (Also see the connection of Slavery and the British Industrial Revolution). The only problems: It's amoral stealing and exploiting others and it's not infinite, people don't want to be exploited so the empire gets…

> Exploiting and stealing always makes you rich Colonies have Britain an edge, but plenty of nations had colonies at the time (and have throughout history). Britain became rich because it industrialised first.

Britain has the world’s biggest empire… in part it did so because it industrialized first, but also it was able to industrialize first because of the empire. The two are deeply interlinked

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#59

Post by KingOfCoders »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #55
KingOfCoders wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Second: "Cotton Capital: a special investigation 2023 Cotton Capital how slavery made Manchester the world’s first industrial city" https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/apr/03/...

Again, plenty of civilisations across history had slaves, and many of Britain’s contemporaries did too.

Not sure I can follow that argument.

  "We can be rich again!"
  "But the wealth was based on slavery, that is no longer"
  "Others had slaves too!"
Or is it

  "We can be rich again!"
  "But the wealth was based on slavery, that is no longer"
  "Others had slaves(-trade) too, but we were the richest, so I doesn't depend on slaves?"
Could you elaborate on your logic?
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