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Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

theguardian.com

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Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#31

Post by shiroiushi »

mym1990 wrote: post #28

Wholly unrelated but one thing that struck me about the photos here is that almost all the people in them are looking at phones. This was a little crazy to me in the times I have visited, when I would get on the train and there was this eerie silence as almost every person was looking at their phone. No real point to my anecdote, just an observation. Also the stained glass(maybe just acrylic or something) at Mejiro S…

>one thing that struck me about the photos here is that almost all the people in them are looking at phones. This was a little crazy to me in the times I have visited, when I would get on the train and there was this eerie silence as almost every person was looking at their phone.

What do you expect them to do, stare at the wall? Phones are ubiquitous and people like to use them for reading books or manga or whatever while they're on their commute.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#32

Post by lmm »

renewiltord wrote: post #4
darknavi wrote: post #2

If you've ever stayed in the heart of Tokyo you know the JR Yamanote line well. What a feat for Japan to have it. I always thought trains (light rail, high speed, what ever) were so much better than cars. Have more traffic? Just add more trains, no extra rails needed. Yamanote line rush hour showed me how effective that is AND how you might need more rail eventually. Rush hour had a train there every ~2 minutes and t…

It's great to use as a tourist. Very easy to get where you want and top notch frequency. One thing I thought was interesting is that transit advocates in the California I was visiting from push for free transit and transit sucks balls here while Japan generally was fee-paid transit and their transit ruled. I frequently travel to Hong Kong and I moved to California from London and so I looked them up and they hadn't t…

Japanese trains are de facto free for many users as employers are de facto required to pay their employees' train commute costs. So I don't know what bizarre mental leap you're making here, or why you're focusing on cost in the first place.

> I frequently travel to Hong Kong and I moved to California from London and so I looked them up and they hadn't transformed to free either.

Try going to Luxembourg sometime.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#34

Post by lmm »

theluketaylor wrote: post #27
sofixa wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always thought trains (light rail, high speed, what ever) were so much better than cars. Have more traffic? Just add more trains, no extra rails needed. Yamanote line rush hour showed me how effective that is AND how you might need more rail eventually. Rush hour had a train there every ~2 minutes and they were still packed. I mean they are much better, but this is only true to a point. You can't get better than…

Montreal's new REM is running pretty short trains at 30 trains per hour and still has capacity for over 40,000 people per hour. 60 trains per hour with longer trains can do even more. Only a handful of places on earth have the density to require any more capacity than a fully automated double track metro can deliver, and those places all have the tax base to easily support quad tracking or actually better is building…

> Nearly all metros with capacity issues have old, slow sections that limit the entire network (NYC looking at you) or have paused on expanding the network for generations (NYC looking at you again, 2nd ave subway notwithstanding).

You're posting this on an article about a line that runs at 158% occupancy during peak times, in a city that certainly hasn't shirked on modernisation or expansion. If you expand far enough then even metros hit their limits.

(Admittedly that city, or rather metropolitan area, is also the most populous in the world).

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#35

Post by theluketaylor »

lmm wrote: post #34
theluketaylor wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Montreal's new REM is running pretty short trains at 30 trains per hour and still has capacity for over 40,000 people per hour. 60 trains per hour with longer trains can do even more. Only a handful of places on earth have the density to require any more capacity than a fully automated double track metro can deliver, and those places all have the tax base to easily support quad tracking or actually better is building…

> Nearly all metros with capacity issues have old, slow sections that limit the entire network (NYC looking at you) or have paused on expanding the network for generations (NYC looking at you again, 2nd ave subway notwithstanding). You're posting this on an article about a line that runs at 158% occupancy during peak times, in a city that certainly hasn't shirked on modernisation or expansion. If you expand far enoug…

Under JR's definitions 150% capacity means people have enough space to read a newspaper. It's 200%+ that is the image of Japanese people being pushed onto the train by the white gloved staff.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#36

Post by mym1990 »

shiroiushi wrote: post #31
mym1990 wrote: post #28

Wholly unrelated but one thing that struck me about the photos here is that almost all the people in them are looking at phones. This was a little crazy to me in the times I have visited, when I would get on the train and there was this eerie silence as almost every person was looking at their phone. No real point to my anecdote, just an observation. Also the stained glass(maybe just acrylic or something) at Mejiro S…

>one thing that struck me about the photos here is that almost all the people in them are looking at phones. This was a little crazy to me in the times I have visited, when I would get on the train and there was this eerie silence as almost every person was looking at their phone. What do you expect them to do, stare at the wall? Phones are ubiquitous and people like to use them for reading books or manga or whatever…

Kind of expected this response. Sometimes self reflection is also an option.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#37

Post by lmm »

theluketaylor wrote: post #35
lmm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nearly all metros with capacity issues have old, slow sections that limit the entire network (NYC looking at you) or have paused on expanding the network for generations (NYC looking at you again, 2nd ave subway notwithstanding). You're posting this on an article about a line that runs at 158% occupancy during peak times, in a city that certainly hasn't shirked on modernisation or expansion. If you expand far enoug…

Under JR's definitions 150% capacity means people have enough space to read a newspaper. It's 200%+ that is the image of Japanese people being pushed onto the train by the white gloved staff.

> Under JR's definitions 150% capacity means people have enough space to read a newspaper.

Having ridden on the Yamanote in peak time, I don't believe that.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#38

Post by numpad0 »

mym1990 wrote: post #36
shiroiushi wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>one thing that struck me about the photos here is that almost all the people in them are looking at phones. This was a little crazy to me in the times I have visited, when I would get on the train and there was this eerie silence as almost every person was looking at their phone. What do you expect them to do, stare at the wall? Phones are ubiquitous and people like to use them for reading books or manga or whatever…

Kind of expected this response. Sometimes self reflection is also an option.

I kind of get the snark, but I'm also not sure of an alternative. Extreme population density of Tokyo likely owe a lot to acquired ignorance. No way our brains don't go total schezophrenic being highly social all day long inside the Yamanote loop.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#39

Post by brailsafe »

simonw wrote: post #19
ano-ther wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but somebody still has to pay for the transit. And a "free" service is politically much more vulnerable than one that is partly being paid for by the users because it involves taxes and redistribution. It adds pressure for each (annual) budget discussion.

That "politically vulnerable" point is good. Almost all public transit ends up heavily subsidized, so the argument for free is that it's not a huge difference, and it reduces the costs involved in collecting fees / enforcement etc. But yeah, it's easier for political winds to blow against it.

I'd add that it wouldn't be so outlandish to assume that any superficially and widely agreeable movement might just be astroturfing, considering how cheap and easy it is to persuade people in general, but also specifically by making them think everyone else feels the same, and how often the arguments just parrot whatever the various internet personalities happen to be saying about it without any additional insight.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#40

Post by [deleted] »

darknavi wrote: post #2

If you've ever stayed in the heart of Tokyo you know the JR Yamanote line well. What a feat for Japan to have it. I always thought trains (light rail, high speed, what ever) were so much better than cars. Have more traffic? Just add more trains, no extra rails needed. Yamanote line rush hour showed me how effective that is AND how you might need more rail eventually. Rush hour had a train there every ~2 minutes and t…

[deleted]
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