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Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

theguardian.com

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Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#21

Post by morninglight »

renewiltord wrote: post #4
darknavi wrote: post #2

If you've ever stayed in the heart of Tokyo you know the JR Yamanote line well. What a feat for Japan to have it. I always thought trains (light rail, high speed, what ever) were so much better than cars. Have more traffic? Just add more trains, no extra rails needed. Yamanote line rush hour showed me how effective that is AND how you might need more rail eventually. Rush hour had a train there every ~2 minutes and t…

It's great to use as a tourist. Very easy to get where you want and top notch frequency. One thing I thought was interesting is that transit advocates in the California I was visiting from push for free transit and transit sucks balls here while Japan generally was fee-paid transit and their transit ruled. I frequently travel to Hong Kong and I moved to California from London and so I looked them up and they hadn't t…

During 18+ years of working at a Japanese company in Tokyo, my train fare to and from work was paid with a pass from the company. This was true for all our employees, and other companies offered the same perk to their employees.

The pass was free and good for travel at any time along that route.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#22

Post by nox101 »

AFAIK Yamanote Line is not the oldest line. Maybe oldest still in service?

There's a train statue at Shimbashi station that I believe commemorates the first line in Japan to/from Yokohama

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JNR_C11_292_Shinbashi_S...

The original station is here https://www.ejrcf.or.jp/shinbashi/index.html just a few blocks from Shimbashi station. They built a new building there thoug the original platform is part of the building and a few sections of original track are encased in glass

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#24

Post by bobthepanda »

Avicebron wrote: post #20
linguae wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another big difference between transit in Tokyo versus transit in California: in Tokyo many of the lines are owned and operated by private companies. JR East used to be part of Japan National Railways, but the Japanese government privatized JNR in 1987, and it was split into several regional companies. There are other private companies that operate commuter rail lines, such as Tokyu (which played a major role in the…

It's important to note that private companies in Japan didn't always function as fully independent entities from the government (obviously there is going to be rent-seeking as almost always happens), there is a pretty complicated history of post ww2 industrial + government growth that had some form of public good (or social contract whichever you prefer) baked into it. It's interesting that you mention it was privati…

JNR failed mostly because it was struggling from high construction debts of Shinkansen and urban rail projects. One important part of the privatization was that the government took on this debt load to unshackle the newly private companies.

Also this hasn’t happened evenly. Of the seven private JRs, one (Kyushu) is treading water and three are losing money (Hokkaido, Shikoku and Freight)

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#25

Post by presentation »

morninglight wrote: post #21
renewiltord wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great to use as a tourist. Very easy to get where you want and top notch frequency. One thing I thought was interesting is that transit advocates in the California I was visiting from push for free transit and transit sucks balls here while Japan generally was fee-paid transit and their transit ruled. I frequently travel to Hong Kong and I moved to California from London and so I looked them up and they hadn't t…

During 18+ years of working at a Japanese company in Tokyo, my train fare to and from work was paid with a pass from the company. This was true for all our employees, and other companies offered the same perk to their employees. The pass was free and good for travel at any time along that route.

That’s called a 定期券 and you can buy that yourself if you want to save some yen on your commute, though it’s only really worth it if you’re going between the stations most weekdays consistently.

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#26

Post by Avicebron »

bobthepanda wrote: post #24
Avicebron wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to note that private companies in Japan didn't always function as fully independent entities from the government (obviously there is going to be rent-seeking as almost always happens), there is a pretty complicated history of post ww2 industrial + government growth that had some form of public good (or social contract whichever you prefer) baked into it. It's interesting that you mention it was privati…

JNR failed mostly because it was struggling from high construction debts of Shinkansen and urban rail projects. One important part of the privatization was that the government took on this debt load to unshackle the newly private companies. Also this hasn’t happened evenly. Of the seven private JRs, one (Kyushu) is treading water and three are losing money (Hokkaido, Shikoku and Freight)

> One important part of the privatization was that the government took on this debt load to unshackle the newly private companies.

Which certainly in some accounting systems be seen as a bailout or form of government support for these newly privatized companies, which the government probably wouldn't do if they didn't see these rail lines as a form of public good (or at least necessity).

I think another user mentioned a little down in this thread that there is a network of mutually supportive companies that are built out along the tracks, shops, hotels, restaurants, all of which benefit from the rail lines supplying customers, and in turn benefit the rail line by providing reasons to use their services outside of a strict A -> B commute.

I wonder if location/population has anything to do with both Kyushu and Hokkaido finding themselves in financial trouble.

Idk, it seems like fairly straightforward from a smooth-brained layman's non-politician perspective (mine), hey people we have a choice: we get clean on time trains where you can grab a cheap cheesesteak on you way back from work, or we get mobile homeless shelters that drop you off next to the needle exchange van in Berkeley

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#27

Post by theluketaylor »

sofixa wrote: post #6
darknavi wrote: post #2

If you've ever stayed in the heart of Tokyo you know the JR Yamanote line well. What a feat for Japan to have it. I always thought trains (light rail, high speed, what ever) were so much better than cars. Have more traffic? Just add more trains, no extra rails needed. Yamanote line rush hour showed me how effective that is AND how you might need more rail eventually. Rush hour had a train there every ~2 minutes and t…

> I always thought trains (light rail, high speed, what ever) were so much better than cars. Have more traffic? Just add more trains, no extra rails needed. Yamanote line rush hour showed me how effective that is AND how you might need more rail eventually. Rush hour had a train there every ~2 minutes and they were still packed. I mean they are much better, but this is only true to a point. You can't get better than…

Montreal's new REM is running pretty short trains at 30 trains per hour and still has capacity for over 40,000 people per hour. 60 trains per hour with longer trains can do even more. Only a handful of places on earth have the density to require any more capacity than a fully automated double track metro can deliver, and those places all have the tax base to easily support quad tracking or actually better is building multiple parallel lines nearby with strong connectivity.

Nearly all metros with capacity issues have old, slow sections that limit the entire network (NYC looking at you) or have paused on expanding the network for generations (NYC looking at you again, 2nd ave subway notwithstanding).

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#28

Post by mym1990 »

Wholly unrelated but one thing that struck me about the photos here is that almost all the people in them are looking at phones. This was a little crazy to me in the times I have visited, when I would get on the train and there was this eerie silence as almost every person was looking at their phone. No real point to my anecdote, just an observation.

Also the stained glass(maybe just acrylic or something) at Mejiro Station in the last photo is absolutely beautiful

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#29

Post by shiroiushi »

tkgally wrote: post #18
renewiltord wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great to use as a tourist. Very easy to get where you want and top notch frequency. One thing I thought was interesting is that transit advocates in the California I was visiting from push for free transit and transit sucks balls here while Japan generally was fee-paid transit and their transit ruled. I frequently travel to Hong Kong and I moved to California from London and so I looked them up and they hadn't t…

Most commuter train lines in Japan are part of integrated conglomerates of complementary businesses. JR East, which runs the Yamanote Line, also operates shopping malls, hotels, gyms, and other retail facilities at and near their stations. Many suburban lines, such as Tokyu and Hankyu, also have large real estate businesses along the train lines. The rail lines make the businesses more accessible, and the businesses…

If you look at the actual profit numbers, these companies are better described as real estate companies that also run train lines (which bring people to the real estate properties, making those properties much more valuable).

Re: Tokyo's oldest train line – in pictures

#30

Post by lmm »

nox101 wrote: post #22

AFAIK Yamanote Line is not the oldest line. Maybe oldest still in service? There's a train statue at Shimbashi station that I believe commemorates the first line in Japan to/from Yokohama https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:JNR_C11_292_Shinbashi_S... The original station is here https://www.ejrcf.or.jp/shinbashi/index.html just a few blocks from Shimbashi station. They built a new building there thoug the original p…

Yeah I don't understand how they're claiming it's the oldest. The neighbouring Keihin-Tohoku line runs that route, perhaps they're getting confused.
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