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Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

reuters.com

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Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#141

Post by lukeschlather »

ben_w wrote: post #92
johnnyanmac wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Perfect is the enemy of the good. I think it goes both ways. Perfection is letting me control the hardware I bought and tweak the software to my liking. them throwing their hands up because of their motte argument of "security" doesn't resonate with me. Especially when the bailey argument is simply "we want to control everything you do". Here, it's "don't even try to achieve good, avoid bad at all costs". In my mind…

Some call it "the Apple tax". To that end, I see this as more like the invention of courts and a police force in a world that was previously an anarchy. Yes, I lose the power to do things; in exchange, I genuinely gain the security of some measure of defence against other people doing things at my expense. I remember when we could actually read all the code on our computers — that time has passed even when the source…

You're essentially arguing that King John should have exclusive right to publish books, and that he should be able to prevent the barons from publishing unapproved books - the DMA gives anyone the right to publish apps including you and I and Epic.

I might agree that Epic should be prevented from publishing their apps, but by a Democratically elected government, not by a private warlord. If Epic is doing something wrong, that should be a matter of public law, not a matter for a king to decide.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#142

Post by FireBeyond »

DEADMINCEDOS wrote: post #110
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they leave the EU market and have no presence, then EU laws can't reach them Selling your product in the EU means having an EU presence. Like, I can’t just ship heroin to Europe from abroad and claim I’m immune.

> Selling your product in the EU means having an EU presence. Ehhhhhh. Kind of. Maybe. Certainly not always. I mean, if there is some shitty little porn company in say, California, and they make porn that say, caters to a fetish that is legal in California but illegal in the EU, well, what then? The porn company isn't doing anything wrong, and EU laws are irrelevant. At this point they can try to firewall off the com…

> So, if Apple pulls out of the EU, maybe they can no longer ship mail to the EU, I'm doubtful of that but let's just say.

Why? Apple has Customs pulling (ironically, actually genuine) Apple parts being shipped.

Customs is built around this whole model, unless what, you propose that Apple starts selling commercial quantities of iPhones by disposable drop shippers?

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#143

Post by carlosjobim »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #85
tgv wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? You can buy an Android, or one of its derivatives, or a Huawei.

That argument didn't work for Microsoft in the 90's (just install BSD or buy a mac if you don't like IE), I don't know why it should work for Apple who's gotten much bigger than 90's MS.

Microsoft was actually abusing their dominance in a criminal way to stop competition. The situation is far from comparable.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#144

Post by throwAGIway »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #136
throwAGIway wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and they saw that software of sufficient quality can't be funded merely by sales of these devices, and decided to create a platform where the software publishers share the cost with the end users. I yearn for Windows Mobile but it has suffered from this problem greatly. Same with early Nokia and Sony Ericsson phones with smarter features like J2ME.

> Indeed, and they saw that software of sufficient quality can't be funded merely by sales of these devices... Yes it can. Apple is lying to get more money, nothing more.

Show me one example?

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#145

Post by talldayo »

ksec wrote: post #116

It is sad state of things. I dislike Apple's inconsistency and hypocrisy. And it was themselves which ultimately lead to the whole regulation. But I still think regulation or government intervention is bad for everybody. As we now have precedence to decouple a lot of things in the name of Anti-Trust or Monopoly.

> As we now have precedence to decouple a lot of things in the name of Anti-Trust or Monopoly.

The precedence has always existed. It might seem a bit uncharacteristic from the European perspective, but historically the United States hasn't shied away from butchering it's largest cash cows.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#146

Post by drdaeman »

DEADMINCE wrote: post #69
immibis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Apple blatantly violating the Digital Markets Act, because it thinks it is above the law (and to be fair, in the USA, it is). The EU has acknowledged this and is currently preparing a truly massive punishment for Apple. Apple, being unaccustomed to having rules apply to it, seems to be ignoring this.

I mean, if it's too much, they will just pull out of the EU and sell to Europeans via online only. EU citizens will still be Apple customers, just without any EU protections. To be fair, the EU is being a bit ridiculous sometimes. Apple decided not to compete in the EU because of the restrictions, and the EU seemingly wanted to penalize that decision also.

They haven't pulled out from China with all their... domestic requirements. I doubt they're gonna pull from the EU.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#147

Post by lukeschlather »

throwitaway1123 wrote: post #131
troupo wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you played Quake doesn't mean the web is good for "vast majority of apps". The web can barely display simple text and images without jank because that is inherent limitation of the DOM that you cannot escape (that, and the absolute dearth of useful controls and utilities in the browser). You could of course build stuff with canvas/WebGPL/WebGPU, but then you have to reinvent the whole world from scratch…

> Just because you played Quake doesn't mean the web is good for "vast majority of apps" It means that at least 15 years ago it was more than powerful enough for all of the 2D Candy Crush style games which make up the overwhelming majority of mobile gaming apps. > The web can barely display simple text and images without jank because that is inherent limitation of the DOM that you cannot escape I've seen you repeat t…

One thing I can quantify directly: in Zoom's native Windows app I can reply to a question and share my screen essentially instantly. That is to say I can do like "you can see here" and I've shared my screen before I've finished speaking, in the Google Meet PWA I have to say "here let me show you..." and pause while I wait for the screen share UI to load, I find the button to share the correct screen, and go.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Zoom saves me 5 minutes out of every 30 in meetings, in fact it might be conservative. And this isn't just a question of the chips (though native Zoom does make better use of it) but also display, audio input/output, even global keyboard shortcut handling.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#148

Post by cafed00d »

cafed00d wrote: post #14
troupo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what infuriates me about this discourse. "Do you want Apple to continue to develop stuff and just provide it to developers for free?". iPhone sales alone are 3x Apple's entire R&D spend. And developers pay more than fair share of that because they need at least two devices (an iPhone and a Mac) if they want to develop anything, and a yearly fee. Apple doesn't just double dip. It triple dips, and wants to quadr…

Why can’t a business be built solely without giving Apple a dime? The web is free — as in freedom and as in gratis. It has a developer tools system funded by hundreds of companies, developers and community members. There’s hardly any order of dipping, if any. Why doesn’t the web compete away Apple’s “dips”?

Reading the comments is convincing enough to believe there is no viable business to be built on the mobile web. It's great technology, sure; but not a great business. Mobile web apps won't pay the bills for people who build them. It seems worth everyone's time to have those mobile web devs instead build native apps. Ergo, Apple's "dips" are justified costs of doing business.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#149

Post by FireBeyond »

alargemoose wrote: post #122
nucleardog wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, so far what we've got is mostly some statements on Twitter. Given how much of this fight has been waged in the media, I put a lot less faith in that than you do. If there's some actual filings with the EU about this somewhere I'd definitely be interested to read them. If Apple's actually rejecting this application because "they used standard platform buttons in a standard platform way", then yeah, nail them t…

> If Apple's actually rejecting this application because "they used standard platform buttons in a standard platform way", then yeah, nail them to the wall. Apple has publicly commented that the buttons are in fact the reason for the rejection. “Apple has since told AppleInsider on Friday that it has approved Epic's marketplace app. It has also asked Epic to fix the buttons in a future submission of the app for revie…

By your very words and the article, the buttons "are in fact the reason for the rejection", except for now, when they weren't, because it was approved?

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#150

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

troupo wrote: post #9
moooo99 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Real shame Apple more or less got away with it with its ransom bekng to stay inside the walled garden. Given with how much Apple got away for years, I am not surprised. Either many people don’t have particularly much insight or a severe case of Stockholm syndrome. What bothers me the most is apples double dipping. You as the consumer basically pay a fee for apples technology. And then they expect the developers to…

That's what infuriates me about this discourse. "Do you want Apple to continue to develop stuff and just provide it to developers for free?". iPhone sales alone are 3x Apple's entire R&D spend. And developers pay more than fair share of that because they need at least two devices (an iPhone and a Mac) if they want to develop anything, and a yearly fee. Apple doesn't just double dip. It triple dips, and wants to quadr…

Agreed. There is no free! I bought your freakin phone, that's your payment!
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