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Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

reuters.com

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Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#71

Post by johnnyanmac »

nottorp wrote: post #22
supermatt wrote: post #5

That third party app stores are subject to review by apple is a problem in itself.

That the only way to get applications on your phone is going through Apple, or a gatekeeper approved by apple, is a problem in itself too. That the first "app store" approved is built on predatory free to play gaming money is also a problem.

>That the first "app store" approved is built on predatory free to play gaming money is also a problem.

That's how 70% of apple's revenue is gained. AKA, the biggest players who are capable of advertising their own store without visibility from the default mode of purchase.

I'm sure eventually we'll get FDroid equivalents on IOS, but Apple is still playing coy as of now. So nothing but the deepest pockets will challenge them.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#72

Post by johnnyanmac »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #39
Unbefleckt wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's a problem for those who already bought Apple and didn't know any better or didn't care. Also, not everyone likes the only available other alternative, which is Google, as while they allow sideloading, they're still a privacy nightmare ad-ware company. The mobile space really needs a shake-up from the entrenched duopoly as currently the choice are a rock or a hard place.

>as while they allow sideloading, they're still a privacy nightmare ad-ware company.

You can definitely de-google AOSP (and I believe a few phones sell on that promise if you don't want to ever interface with that stuff). You can't de-apple IOS as of now.

I don't think that problem will be solved anytime soon. Network effects + market capture = no one is going to want to learn a new system. The desktop space has been 3 platforms for decades and the only potential challenger is... Google. Meanwhile, Microsoft, Blackberry, and Palm all dropped out nearly a decade ago and there's nothing new on the horizon.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#73

Post by halayli »

hk__2 wrote: post #30
holoduke wrote: post #25

Whats the difference between mobsters owning a city , demanding money from all shops and Apple? There is none. Leadership at Apple is no different. Criminals who need be charged with jail penalties. Only then things will change. Will that ever happen? No. Governments are more or less controlled by lobbyists representing the same evil companies.

> Whats the difference between mobsters owning a city , demanding money from all shops and Apple? Apple produces and sells the device. Without Apple, you wouldn’t be able to build these apps; whereas the shops would exist without the mobsters. (not trying to defend Apple, just answering the question)

Consumers buy these devices. Apple doesn't give them away for free. A consumer should be able to run whatever they want on the devices they have purchased. We are a long way from achieving this basic goal.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#74

Post by nottorp »

DEADMINCE wrote: post #66
nottorp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortnite isn't financed from IAPs? Tencent didn't get all their investment money from Gacha in the asian market? And please don't tell me Tencent is a minority investor or that there are non predatory IAPs or I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

None of that matters. The owner of a game doesn't dictate whether the game is predatory or not, the behavior of the game does. The free to play model isn't inherently predatory, either, although certain companies certainly are. Call of Duty seems especially predatory.

Let me translate “it’s only cosmetic” for you, because it’s probably what you think when you say there are non predatory IAPs. It means “keep the players playing until they get bored and buy some cosmetics”.

They design the game to not only fleece you for money, but to waste your time until you do.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#75

Post by johnnyanmac »

nottorp wrote: post #56
caseyy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is “predatory free to play” in the context of Fortnite?

Fortnite isn't financed from IAPs? Tencent didn't get all their investment money from Gacha in the asian market? And please don't tell me Tencent is a minority investor or that there are non predatory IAPs or I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

>Tencent didn't get all their investment money from Gacha in the asian market?

Got some, but thinking Tencent got all their money from Gacha is like saying Google got all its money from Search. Tencent's reach is in nearly every industry in China.

>And please don't tell me Tencent is a minority investor or that there are non predatory IAPs

I won't, but do you really believe all add-ons are predatory?

This attitude is exactly why you can't make premium mobile anymore. No one wants to pay, and the minority that do will pay a lot. "Piracy is a service problem" is a very common thing touted in argument against such tactics, but when you can sell your service for "free" to get people in the door, that argument falls apart quickly.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#76

Post by throwAGIway »

holoduke wrote: post #25

Whats the difference between mobsters owning a city , demanding money from all shops and Apple? There is none. Leadership at Apple is no different. Criminals who need be charged with jail penalties. Only then things will change. Will that ever happen? No. Governments are more or less controlled by lobbyists representing the same evil companies.

Apple built the city and you're free to go anywhere else.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#77

Post by servus45678981 »

DEADMINCE wrote: post #63
Rinzler89 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a problem for those who already bought Apple and didn't know any better or didn't care. Also, not everyone likes the only available other alternative, which is Google, as while they allow sideloading, they're still a privacy nightmare ad-ware company. The mobile space really needs a shake-up from the entrenched duopoly as currently the choice are a rock or a hard place.

> It's a problem for those who already bought Apple and didn't know any better or didn't care. Also, not everyone likes the only available other alternative, which is Google, as while they allow sideloading, they're still a privacy nightmare ad-ware company. If you do care about privacy and having control of your own hardware, Google is the only choice, and that should be very obvious. Not because Android is so much…

There is Cyndia and other projects like sandcastle and stuff… Android is not the better choice; at all

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#78

Post by johnnyanmac »

lostlogin wrote: post #18
Barrin92 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

one step at a time. Bureaucracies and regulators move slow but it seems pretty evident that the wind is at least blowing into the correct direction this time. Might take another five years or so but in a lot of regions it seems like the control over devices and software is slowly breaking down. India, Japan, SK all have similar regulation passed or on the way.

> similar regulation passed or on the way. With exclusions that suit them. As you say, the wind is blowing the right way, it would be nice to see but console games get the same treatment.

>it would be nice to see but console games get the same treatment.

what's the appeal? consoles at best last 8 years before the new generation. These stores probably take 2-4 years to prepare properly. A dev won't use half their generation to get around a 30% fee.

I think one understated part of the consoles is that that 30% does go into proper support, compared to apple/google that act more as gatekeepers. Larger studios knowing they can get on-site console developers to help debug, optimize, and maybe even fix API issues is well worth such a cut.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#79

Post by JumpCrisscross »

DEADMINCE wrote: post #69
immibis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's Apple blatantly violating the Digital Markets Act, because it thinks it is above the law (and to be fair, in the USA, it is). The EU has acknowledged this and is currently preparing a truly massive punishment for Apple. Apple, being unaccustomed to having rules apply to it, seems to be ignoring this.

I mean, if it's too much, they will just pull out of the EU and sell to Europeans via online only. EU citizens will still be Apple customers, just without any EU protections. To be fair, the EU is being a bit ridiculous sometimes. Apple decided not to compete in the EU because of the restrictions, and the EU seemingly wanted to penalize that decision also.

> if it's too much, they will just pull out of the EU and sell to Europeans via online only

This doesn’t exempt them from the law. Apple is never giving up the EU.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#80

Post by johnnyanmac »

ben_w wrote: post #50
troupo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Users are dumb, and need to protected from harm. And we know for a fact that Apple despite all their claims to the contrary cannot do that.

Indeed, but in the same way that code reviews and QA testers can't catch all defects. Perfect is the enemy of the good. Swiss cheese model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model Apple's (flawed!) review process still catches a lot of bad actors. Not all, and it has false-positives. That doesn't mean it's useless. The (legit) question is: is Apple also using security as an excuse to make more money at the e…

>Perfect is the enemy of the good.

I think it goes both ways. Perfection is letting me control the hardware I bought and tweak the software to my liking. them throwing their hands up because of their motte argument of "security" doesn't resonate with me. Especially when the bailey argument is simply "we want to control everything you do". Here, it's "don't even try to achieve good, avoid bad at all costs".

In my mind it's like closing a store down due to excessive theft in an area. That doesnt fix theft, it just takes away service from the honest customers.

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