Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#131

Post by throwitaway1123 » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 4:46 PM UTC

troupo wrote: post #127

throwitaway1123 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The web is absolutely more than good enough for the vast majority of apps. I was playing Quake Live in the browser on a thermally throttled dual core laptop 15 years ago, but the hive mind here at HN will have you believe that the generic social media apps that dominate the charts all need to be "close to the metal": https://apps.apple.com/us/charts/iphone/top-free-apps/36

Just because you played Quake doesn't mean the web is good for "vast majority of apps". The web can barely display simple text and images without jank because that is inherent limitation of the DOM that you cannot escape (that, and the absolute dearth of useful controls and utilities in the browser). You could of course build stuff with canvas/WebGPL/WebGPU, but then you have to reinvent the whole world from scratch…

> Just because you played Quake doesn't mean the web is good for "vast majority of apps"

It means that at least 15 years ago it was more than powerful enough for all of the 2D Candy Crush style games which make up the overwhelming majority of mobile gaming apps.

> The web can barely display simple text and images without jank because that is inherent limitation of the DOM that you cannot escape

I've seen you repeat this phrase over and over again like a mantra on HN, but without examples I can't really gauge the performance problems you've run in to. The overwhelming majority of jank on the web that I've experienced is due to advertising bloatware (an adblocker is indispensable), and occasionally bad engineering (e.g. someone forgot to make an event listener passive, or isn't debouncing an event) not some inherent limitation of the platform. What are some examples of popular apps that you think require the full brunt of a modern chip? Every M3 iPad review I've watched ends up saying essentially the same thing: "this chip is powerful, but besides Geekbench benchmarks we have nothing to use it for".

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#132

Post by talldayo » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 4:48 PM UTC

nucleardog wrote: post #112

solarkraft wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic‘s no saint, but I don’t expect them to outright lie about something they’ll likely present to officials. Especially considering that the alleged behavior is exactly in line with what Apple has been doing for a long time.

I mean, so far what we've got is mostly some statements on Twitter. Given how much of this fight has been waged in the media, I put a lot less faith in that than you do. If there's some actual filings with the EU about this somewhere I'd definitely be interested to read them. If Apple's actually rejecting this application because "they used standard platform buttons in a standard platform way", then yeah, nail them t…

> Given how much of this fight has been waged in the media, I put a lot less faith in that than you do.

A non-insignificant portion of this fight has also been waged in municipal European courts, in case you forgot.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#133

Post by wellthisisgreat » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 4:53 PM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #75

nottorp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortnite isn't financed from IAPs? Tencent didn't get all their investment money from Gacha in the asian market? And please don't tell me Tencent is a minority investor or that there are non predatory IAPs or I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

>Tencent didn't get all their investment money from Gacha in the asian market? Got some, but thinking Tencent got all their money from Gacha is like saying Google got all its money from Search. Tencent's reach is in nearly every industry in China. >And please don't tell me Tencent is a minority investor or that there are non predatory IAPs I won't, but do you really believe all add-ons are predatory? This attitude is…

> all add-ons are predatory?

All gaming IAP that are not full on expansions (not skins, not standalone characters, etc.hm) are predatory

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#134

Post by talldayo » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 4:54 PM UTC

troupo wrote: post #126

johnnyanmac wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Android has been the dominant mobile OS for over a decade. worldwide, and not by a large margin. I believe it's 60/40 last I checked. Among US and a few other first world countries, it's nearly 50/50, with a very small advantadge to Apple. Slashing your consumer base in the biggest markets isn't an attractive proposition. >Where is the multitude of amazing native-like web apps that we keep hearing about? well Apple…

> well Apple made PWA's harde So. Let me get this straight. Android is dominant in the world. In first world countries it's 50/50 (though it's 69% in the EU). There are also desktops where Chrome is dominant. And yet, somehow, there are still no amazing PWAs[1] that are the future as everyone claims, because somehow Apple prevents you from building them for those dominant platforms. [1] Don't mention Figma or VSCode…

> And yet, somehow, there are still no amazing PWAs

There are plenty of great PWAs. People bring them up on a regular basis and you piss and moan when we say Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Mastodon, Pinterest, Uber, Trivago, Starbucks, Dominos, Stitchfix, Adam & Eve or Hotels.com are usable online. You specifically complain because none of these apps are killer features to you. I don't know what to say; clearly they exist and you're trying to minimize the number of apps that technically qualify.

People refuse to take you seriously when you repeat this same tautology. Of course PWAs aren't popular on platforms that deliberately go out of their way to make them infeasible alternatives to a first-party service. It's not my fault that your purview of the technology is arbitrarily limited.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#135

Post by bigstrat2003 » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 4:54 PM UTC

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #91

127 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is to leave EU market. They do have a choice in the matter.

They are refusing to leave Russian market and are actively cooperating with Russian government - see blocking VPNs few days ago. Russian market is much poorer and smaller. If they are refusing to leave this market, leaving EU market is ludicrous to even think about.

That does not change the fact that they have a choice.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#136

Post by bigstrat2003 » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 4:56 PM UTC

throwAGIway wrote: post #114

hu3 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple didn't build it for free and isn't giving it away for free either. These are $1000+ devices. It's like buying a house and still not owning it.

Indeed, and they saw that software of sufficient quality can't be funded merely by sales of these devices, and decided to create a platform where the software publishers share the cost with the end users. I yearn for Windows Mobile but it has suffered from this problem greatly. Same with early Nokia and Sony Ericsson phones with smarter features like J2ME.

> Indeed, and they saw that software of sufficient quality can't be funded merely by sales of these devices...

Yes it can. Apple is lying to get more money, nothing more.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#137

Post by kibwen » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 4:59 PM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #78

lostlogin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> similar regulation passed or on the way. With exclusions that suit them. As you say, the wind is blowing the right way, it would be nice to see but console games get the same treatment.

>it would be nice to see but console games get the same treatment. what's the appeal? consoles at best last 8 years before the new generation. These stores probably take 2-4 years to prepare properly. A dev won't use half their generation to get around a 30% fee. I think one understated part of the consoles is that that 30% does go into proper support, compared to apple/google that act more as gatekeepers. Larger stu…

> consoles at best last 8 years before the new generation.

Consoles remain alive way longer in poorer regions of the world. The lock-in from console manufacturers is designed to artificially shorten console lifecycles by cutting off supply of newly-manufactured older consoles and new games for those consoles. It's textbook planned obsolescence.

I don't want a single CPU in my home that I don't have the right to reprogram as I see fit. There's no reason for gaming consoles to be an exception.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#138

Post by macintux » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 5:03 PM UTC

SiempreViernes wrote: post #43

4rt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The security model on modern OSes is vastly different to the win95 days.

So are the threat actors.

And the potential damage. Smartphones are radically more personal than a PC ever was.

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#139

Post by kibwen » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 5:07 PM UTC

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #135

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are refusing to leave Russian market and are actively cooperating with Russian government - see blocking VPNs few days ago. Russian market is much poorer and smaller. If they are refusing to leave this market, leaving EU market is ludicrous to even think about.

That does not change the fact that they have a choice.

Companies, including Apple, are sociopathic profit-maximizers. There is no choice when one of the choices is "make less money".

Re: Apple okays Epic Games marketplace app in Europe

#140

Post by macintux » Sat, Jul 06, 2024, 5:08 PM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #85

tgv wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? You can buy an Android, or one of its derivatives, or a Huawei.

That argument didn't work for Microsoft in the 90's (just install BSD or buy a mac if you don't like IE), I don't know why it should work for Apple who's gotten much bigger than 90's MS.

Microsoft had something like 90% of the PC market. That’s why the argument should work for Apple today.