It's getting harder to die • Hacker News Board

Re: It's getting harder to die

#221

Post by scotteric » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 12:33 AM UTC

LorenPechtel wrote: post #175

Liquix wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

booze has been around for thousands of years. it's not good for you but it's also not a new phenomenon driving suicide numbers up. IMHO it's a combination of low wages, high cost of living, and scrolling/gaming/streaming/porn addiction. we don't know how to talk about it yet but it's fucking people up. human brains were not ready for what the internet has become

If anything I suspect booze reduces suicide numbers. For some people it's an escape that makes life tolerable. I'm thinking of a book whose title eludes me at present. It's by a doctor, talking about their ER experience. One of their frequent fliers--and one time he talked a bit about why. He had been a sniper in Afghanistan (Afghani, fighting the Russians), he drank to keep from killing himself because of the horror…

People with alcohol use disorder are many times more likely to commit suicide. Alcohol makes depression worse in the long run, even if someone finds some temporary comfort from a bottle.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#222

Post by jackothy » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 12:46 AM UTC

anonzzzies wrote: post #219

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this has been my experience with a family friend who died of a brain tumor. Basically, once you're in hospice (in this case it was home hospice) and it's clear you're going to die, they just hook you up to the morphine drip that you can press yourself. Obviously for many people it's still very scary - it is death after all. But the self-administered morphine drip has been around for ages and is relatively uncont…

> very scary - it is death after all. Is it? As an atheist I welcome the nothing; no more worrying about filling out taxes and such. Being religious you really should be jumping for joy (although you cannot kill yourself probably), but how is death scary if you believe in something after?

Because it's hard to fully comprehend or feel complete certainty of what is going to happen.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#223

Post by Aerbil313 » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 12:47 AM UTC

anonzzzies wrote: post #219

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this has been my experience with a family friend who died of a brain tumor. Basically, once you're in hospice (in this case it was home hospice) and it's clear you're going to die, they just hook you up to the morphine drip that you can press yourself. Obviously for many people it's still very scary - it is death after all. But the self-administered morphine drip has been around for ages and is relatively uncont…

> very scary - it is death after all. Is it? As an atheist I welcome the nothing; no more worrying about filling out taxes and such. Being religious you really should be jumping for joy (although you cannot kill yourself probably), but how is death scary if you believe in something after?

It’s not the death that is scary, it’s the Judgement Day that’ll come after. Because you don’t know whether you did enough good stuff to go straight to heaven, or first have to suffer in hell to account for your sins. Not all of us believe in a religion that says you are already forgiven and you’ll go to heaven, because God sent himself down to Earth to become His own son to sacrifice Himself to Himself to convince Himself to forgive you.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#224

Post by exe34 » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 1:14 AM UTC

LorenPechtel wrote: post #161

KMag wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted death penalty opponents are biased, but it's often said that barbituate overdose is a very unpleasant way to die. I've also heard opiod overdose is unpleasant. I was once helping take down a 10-foot weather balloon full of helium, and took in two breaths in a row of pure helium. I started to get tunnel vision, said "whoah", sat down when I realized I was about to lose consciousness, fell down, and twitched ju…

Yup, AFIAK hypoxia is the best way to go. Survivors who are rescued in time (or, like you, self-rescue) don't have a bad experience. The MAiD protocol used in Canada likewise appears to not be a bad experience as the only thing the patient experiences is anesthesia.

I had general anaesthesia for a surgery, and I can remember the falling asleep was only very slightly uncomfortable. so I think it can be done - once I'm under, just cut out something important and throw everything in the furnace.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#225

Post by anonymouskimmer » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 1:15 AM UTC

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #209

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know. That objection was brought up in the first article I read on this issue. Still, depending on the care required, it's pretty bad to imply that someone is better off dead. And 7% of the study subjects recovered completely.

The idea of living long term, near death, while medical expenses slowly eat away the savings I would prefer to leave to my loved ones makes me very unhappy.

The general idea here is to wait longer than 72 hours before making the decision.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#226

Post by exe34 » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 1:15 AM UTC

Flumio wrote: post #200

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also coming to the conclusion that inert gas hypoxia is going to be my way out. My end has to be, as far as I can make it, painless and polite, meaning a happy exit with minimal inconveniencing of as few as possible other people. Any suitable substance for this seems to be taken off the market, even basic stuff like metal nitrites (as used in curing meat. Try getting hold of a nontrivial amount of this in the UK)…

Any thoughts on how to inhale it without risking others finding you in a oxygen deprived setup? Like a warning sign or some fan kicking in later?

i considered diving equipment, but I never investigated them properly.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#227

Post by exe34 » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 1:17 AM UTC

LorenPechtel wrote: post #162

CoastalCoder wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the pacemaker law predate the death with dignity law? I'm wondering if it only anticipated pacemakers being disabled for malice or out of negligence.

All the US death with dignity laws are lethal prescriptions only, the patient must self-administer. Turning off a pacemaker would be the doctor doing it, not the patient.

give them a switch.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#228

Post by namtab00 » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 1:18 AM UTC

LorenPechtel wrote: post #195

martinpw wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's easy to say in the abstract, but the reality can be quite different. Of course every case is different, but for example: * Spouse has dementia, does not recognize you, abuses you for being an intruder in the house, constantly shouts for help all times of day and night. * Feeding, cleaning (double incontinence). * Can't go out except for a few minutes when nurses are present. The above goes on for month…

Dementia is particularly evil. As far as I'm concerned I am my mind. If my mind is gone my body doesn't matter, please don't waste effort in caring for it.

Thing is, it doesn't happen like flicking a switch, it's progressive and tricky to process as a caretaker.

I'm seeing this right now with a close friend and her 83yo mother.

It's seriously damaging to my friend, and no amount of my reasoning with her seems to help her process her mother's cognitive decay...

...and it leaves me defeated also, I don't have the tools to really be of true help.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#229

Post by exe34 » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 1:18 AM UTC

anonzzzies wrote: post #59

vundercind wrote: post #11

Recently watched someone close die over a couple days, after a long decline. The last 24 hours were monstrous to inflict on anyone. Torture. Evil. Hours and hours of faltering breathing, often restarting with what was plainly a panicked adrenaline-pumping response. It looked like they felt like they were about to drown every few minutes , hour, after hour, no relief. No IV fluids (terminal anyway, so no trying to kee…

Here they would ask you (unless dementia and not arranged, which is an ongoing issue) if you want more morphine and you can keep saying yes until you don’t wake up. Or click the button yourself; there is no limit (also; very hackable these limiting machines). Probably many people in a long decline would just hold the button until not waking up; that is the way it should be. Some people worry about the gov making us w…

your value is what you contribute to the economy by working and consuming, or helping others work and consume. You're not getting out that easy!

Re: It's getting harder to die

#230

Post by Krssst » Sun, Jun 30, 2024, 2:00 AM UTC

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #129

Krssst wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess prolonging treatment is in the interest of for-profit hospitals as found in other countries France does the same but has nationalized healthcare, so it does not seem motivated by profits. It puts pressure on the healthcare system and only brings additional suffering. We could change that, but implementing assisted death needs careful consideration and defeating politically the small subset of people that th…

> but implementing assisted death needs careful consideration Yes. > and defeating politically the small subset of people that think life with extreme suffering is precious. You don't need to defeat us. All you need is a clear-cut agreement between the patient and the doctor, preferably in advance for those who are physically unable to decide at the end, similar to a DNI. Between the patient and the doctor, and possi…

> All you need is a clear-cut agreement between the patient and the doctor,

Then you are not part of the group of persons I was pointing out. Is was thinking of people against it regardless of the conditions. Some form of consent is needed for euthanasia. How strong this consent should be (written agreement before? Or must explicitly tell the doctor right before the injection?) needs to be decided after thinking carefully about how to keep the law being useful while avoiding abuses. But right now euthanasia is fully illegal; the best one can get is starving to death.