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It's getting harder to die

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Re: It's getting harder to die

#11

Post by vundercind »

Recently watched someone close die over a couple days, after a long decline.

The last 24 hours were monstrous to inflict on anyone. Torture. Evil.

Hours and hours of faltering breathing, often restarting with what was plainly a panicked adrenaline-pumping response. It looked like they felt like they were about to drown every few minutes, hour, after hour, no relief. No IV fluids (terminal anyway, so no trying to keep them alive with techniques like that) and unable to drink, so certainly terribly thirsty the whole time. Unable to communicate or really engage with surroundings, and quite high on pain meds anyway (the closest thing to a mercy in all this). It’s fucked up that that’s a fairly normal way for dying people to make their exit. I’m sure there are all kinds of problems with trying to provide a way out when someone can’t make the choice for themselves, without opening it up to abuse, but damn, I hope this isn’t the best we can do because it’s terrible.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#12

Post by kingkongjaffa »

ericmcer wrote: post #3

Kind of a tough read, I just turned 37 and this was the year when it really hit home that your body degrades and sometimes it never goes back to "normal". I was used to sports injuries being a pattern of injury -> recovery -> ramp back up to 100%, but have suffered some injuries recently and am coming to terms with realizing I will never return to 100%. They will be lingering things I deal with for the rest of my lif…

This really resonates with me. I’m 30 now. I had a rotator cuff injury last year and lost some range of motion in my shoulder for about 6 months.

This year I got a personal trainer for the first time.

I’m really trying to fight to get in shape and stay in shape.

I spent my 20’s working and for the last 5 years I work remotely, largely ignoring my health.

Sitting in a home office all day is really bad for you.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#13

Post by adaptbrian »

ericmcer wrote: post #3

Kind of a tough read, I just turned 37 and this was the year when it really hit home that your body degrades and sometimes it never goes back to "normal". I was used to sports injuries being a pattern of injury -> recovery -> ramp back up to 100%, but have suffered some injuries recently and am coming to terms with realizing I will never return to 100%. They will be lingering things I deal with for the rest of my lif…

On the flip side changing diet and it's effects on what folks might have seen as something they can never fix/change without _____ drug, might be transformational.

With that said, my better half can't bend her arm past a certain part on her body, however, b.c of a really small/stupid collision/fall coming down a Tahoe MTN ski run. It always depends on the problem.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#15

Post by conroydave »

vundercind wrote: post #11

Recently watched someone close die over a couple days, after a long decline. The last 24 hours were monstrous to inflict on anyone. Torture. Evil. Hours and hours of faltering breathing, often restarting with what was plainly a panicked adrenaline-pumping response. It looked like they felt like they were about to drown every few minutes , hour, after hour, no relief. No IV fluids (terminal anyway, so no trying to kee…

Watched my grandfather pass in the same way. Didn’t seem right to let him pass of basically lack of food and hydration after 95 years even though also terminal. I just wanted to see him comfortable and he was far from it.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#16

Post by Theodores »

This is a really good article, not least for the list of ways that you will be kept medically alive.

As for the premise of the article, it is definitely getting easier to die. We had the plumbers and the rubbish collecting workers clear up our communicable chronic diseases, we de-industrialised and cleared up the air, we quit smoking, put on our seat belts and reigned in the alcohol. So far so good.

But, if you look at the physiques of people, the levels of car dependency and the predominance of the Standard American Diet, it seems that people are going the way of Joe Biden in old age, to have what you might call a loss of cognitive abilities, yet able to be preserved near indefinitely. The President isn't unalive, but he isn't really there. Millions are in the same boat, functionally alive but only from the eye-sockets down, and probably with bits of their colon or bladder removed due to cancer that they have bravely fought with a diet of highly processed food and a sedentary lifestyle.

When it comes to how to live a healthy life, there is so much misinformation that we are all an experiment of n = 1. There is no realm of information that is anywhere near as confusing as diet. Really you are forced to join one tribe or another if longevity is your game. Either you are going to go all in on 'everything in moderation' or go fully ketogenic meat only carnivore, or the other way, full on vegan.

The Google confirmation bias is strong with the whole topic, and I am sure that I could look up 'can I get omega three fatty acid things from eating goat hair' and somewhere there will be an article or 'scientific paper' promoting the eating of goat hair, with a study from some goat herders living in Outer Mongolia, thousands of miles away from any fish, with excellent omega three things going on. There will also be an 'adsense' advert for where you can get goat hair online and Reddit threads on whether you need yak shavings instead.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#17

Post by spurgu »

vundercind wrote: post #11

Recently watched someone close die over a couple days, after a long decline. The last 24 hours were monstrous to inflict on anyone. Torture. Evil. Hours and hours of faltering breathing, often restarting with what was plainly a panicked adrenaline-pumping response. It looked like they felt like they were about to drown every few minutes , hour, after hour, no relief. No IV fluids (terminal anyway, so no trying to kee…

I'm sorry for your loss.

Edit: I feel a bit dumb now, I hadn't actually read the article yet, went straight for the comments. Seems like I'm just reiterating what it says.

When I'm in that shape I just wanna go in peace. Preferably at home, in my own bed, surrounded by loved ones. No tubes down my throat, no shots to keep me alive at any cost, with no end in sight.

Here's some good discussion on the topic between two doctors that I watched recently: https://youtu.be/O0YIGAUDlzQ?t=242

Re: It's getting harder to die

#18

Post by cogman10 »

complaintdept wrote: post #4

...and it's getting harder on the families too with nothing to really address it. It used to be one day you'd drop dead, or get really sick and be dead not long after, and your family after a terrible shock could begin readjusting to the new reality without their loved one. Now you can have what used to be a death sentence and continue living for years or even decades. But the systems which support the patient's life…

The problem is it's not black and white what the long term outcome will be. A cancer diagnosis that was terminal 20 years ago could mean in 20 years you'll die of a heart attack with a short period of horrible treatment.

It gets even more dicey when you start talking about things like "well, the 20% chance is you'll survive this. The 80% chance is you'll die". Almost everyone is going to want to roll the 1/5 chance of living rather than taking the "you do nothing and you die" path, even if the 1/5 path is horribly terrible.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#19

Post by ryukafalz »

silverquiet wrote: post #7
ericmcer wrote: post #3

Kind of a tough read, I just turned 37 and this was the year when it really hit home that your body degrades and sometimes it never goes back to "normal". I was used to sports injuries being a pattern of injury -> recovery -> ramp back up to 100%, but have suffered some injuries recently and am coming to terms with realizing I will never return to 100%. They will be lingering things I deal with for the rest of my lif…

Not everyone gets even that - I've had mobility issues since I was seven years old. It's been strange to realize that it probably shaped my personality somewhat; I always felt older than my peers in some way. The silver lining might be that while now they are starting to say how old they feel (I'm basically the same age as you), I'll often tell them that I don't feel any older.

> The silver lining might be that while now they are starting to say how old they feel (I'm basically the same age as you), I'll often tell them that I don't feel any older.

As someone with chronic back pain since my late teens, this is... a nice perspective. My friend group isn't old enough yet for it to come up very often but I feel like I can relate.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#20

Post by rqtwteye »

cjk2 wrote: post #8
ericmcer wrote: post #3

Kind of a tough read, I just turned 37 and this was the year when it really hit home that your body degrades and sometimes it never goes back to "normal". I was used to sports injuries being a pattern of injury -> recovery -> ramp back up to 100%, but have suffered some injuries recently and am coming to terms with realizing I will never return to 100%. They will be lingering things I deal with for the rest of my lif…

Hey you're me 15 years ago. I stopped the sports and switched to sustained low damage exercise like cycling, hiking, swimming etc. While you can't undo the damage done if you have a very high level of fitness, you can reduce the effects of the further progression of time. Better be as fit as a 50 year old with some damage when you're 70 than as fit as a 70 year old with some damage. End game is not pretty. My ex wife…

Same here. I had to switch from doing crazy stuff to just maintaining health. Hiking really fits the spot. I still get a lot of cardio (I have hiking trails with 1000m elevation gain within 10 minutes of driving) that way. But things like running or martial arts are out of the question. I am glad that I was able to adapt to a declining body. Some people my age still do high impact stuff and constantly get injured, take lots of painkillers and get surgeries.
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