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It's getting harder to die

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Re: It's getting harder to die

#161

Post by LorenPechtel »

KMag wrote: post #150
Flumio wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best thing they can do is shoot me with a nice does of heroin and after the high.just ending it. We know how to end life's.

Granted death penalty opponents are biased, but it's often said that barbituate overdose is a very unpleasant way to die. I've also heard opiod overdose is unpleasant. I was once helping take down a 10-foot weather balloon full of helium, and took in two breaths in a row of pure helium. I started to get tunnel vision, said "whoah", sat down when I realized I was about to lose consciousness, fell down, and twitched ju…

Yup, AFIAK hypoxia is the best way to go. Survivors who are rescued in time (or, like you, self-rescue) don't have a bad experience. The MAiD protocol used in Canada likewise appears to not be a bad experience as the only thing the patient experiences is anesthesia.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#162

Post by LorenPechtel »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #102
Der_Einzige wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oregon pioneered death with dignity so this is a huge surprise.

Does the pacemaker law predate the death with dignity law? I'm wondering if it only anticipated pacemakers being disabled for malice or out of negligence.

All the US death with dignity laws are lethal prescriptions only, the patient must self-administer. Turning off a pacemaker would be the doctor doing it, not the patient.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#163

Post by LorenPechtel »

magicalhippo wrote: post #104
vundercind wrote: post #11

Recently watched someone close die over a couple days, after a long decline. The last 24 hours were monstrous to inflict on anyone. Torture. Evil. Hours and hours of faltering breathing, often restarting with what was plainly a panicked adrenaline-pumping response. It looked like they felt like they were about to drown every few minutes , hour, after hour, no relief. No IV fluids (terminal anyway, so no trying to kee…

My dad had cancer that had spread to the lungs. He got pneumonia at the stage where he was having to use an oxygen machine at home. At the hospital he asked the doctors if he'd be able to go home, and they said it was highly unlikely. So, he asked them to turn off the oxygen, which they did. He passed peacefully a few hours later. Sure, we might have gotten a few extra months with him, but I'm so glad the doctors res…

That was my mother's philosophy. The hospital is for fixing you up and sending you home. If the sending home part isn't going to happen she didn't want treatment.

The reality is there comes a point where the doctors can only prolong the dying--and in an awful lot of such cases that's a negative for the person.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#164

Post by drrskino »

drowsspa wrote: post #110
treprinum wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's run a thought experiment - you make death super easy like in a suicide booth in Futurama. How many people are going to fight life obstacles, pushing society forward, or rather terminally quit at the first sign of troubles? Nihilism was quite popular in the 19th century and led us to two world wars already. All you'll get is a quick extinction of people like you in favor of those that persist and your opinion wi…

Nihilism leading to the two world wars and opinions being coded in the DNA are definitely two of the takes of all time

Opinion and perspective are closely tied to cultural upbringing which is closely tied to race and ethnicity.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#165

Post by LorenPechtel »

bamboozled wrote: post #42
vundercind wrote: post #11

Recently watched someone close die over a couple days, after a long decline. The last 24 hours were monstrous to inflict on anyone. Torture. Evil. Hours and hours of faltering breathing, often restarting with what was plainly a panicked adrenaline-pumping response. It looked like they felt like they were about to drown every few minutes , hour, after hour, no relief. No IV fluids (terminal anyway, so no trying to kee…

I’ve witnessed similar and in a way, I think the person was kept alive too long. I personally think they would’ve died from other causes well before it got to the stage they were at. Euthanasia is probably a pretty important thing because of this. If we’re going to resuscitate people in their 80s, then maybe we shouldn’t let them go through the “long death” a few years later. All in all it’s a tragic thing the only c…

I saw it with my father--to take the pain the morphine also took his memory. And in the end there was only suffering--fortunately, the problem would quickly kill making him eligible for terminal sedation.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#166

Post by tsol »

squigz wrote: post #70
j_bum wrote: post #47

Slightly tangential, but I believe this article segues into a discussion about assisted suicide or euthanasia at the end of life. My entire family has been suffering over the past 18 months watching my 88-year-old grandmother slowly pass away from age-related deterioration and AD. I worked with mice during my PhD training in the US. If a lab was caught with lab mice suffering like my grandmother is without euthanizin…

Because far too many people believe that human life is the most precious thing on Earth and willingly ending it is literally the worst thing you could ever do.

There's also the worry that it will be abused. Kids who want their inheritance, people who have been abused and told it's the right thing for them when it's not, or just insurance trying to save money by avoiding more expensive treatments

Re: It's getting harder to die

#167

Post by LorenPechtel »

kstenerud wrote: post #126
vundercind wrote: post #11

Recently watched someone close die over a couple days, after a long decline. The last 24 hours were monstrous to inflict on anyone. Torture. Evil. Hours and hours of faltering breathing, often restarting with what was plainly a panicked adrenaline-pumping response. It looked like they felt like they were about to drown every few minutes , hour, after hour, no relief. No IV fluids (terminal anyway, so no trying to kee…

Someone I know acquired potassium cyanide for this reason. She's getting up there in age and wanted some insurance against a horrible death.

Yeah, we are so obsessed with keeping people alive that this sort of thing is prudent behavior.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#168

Post by _a_a_a_ »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #161
KMag wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted death penalty opponents are biased, but it's often said that barbituate overdose is a very unpleasant way to die. I've also heard opiod overdose is unpleasant. I was once helping take down a 10-foot weather balloon full of helium, and took in two breaths in a row of pure helium. I started to get tunnel vision, said "whoah", sat down when I realized I was about to lose consciousness, fell down, and twitched ju…

Yup, AFIAK hypoxia is the best way to go. Survivors who are rescued in time (or, like you, self-rescue) don't have a bad experience. The MAiD protocol used in Canada likewise appears to not be a bad experience as the only thing the patient experiences is anesthesia.

I'm also coming to the conclusion that inert gas hypoxia is going to be my way out. My end has to be, as far as I can make it, painless and polite, meaning a happy exit with minimal inconveniencing of as few as possible other people. Any suitable substance for this seems to be taken off the market, even basic stuff like metal nitrites (as used in curing meat. Try getting hold of a nontrivial amount of this in the UK). I don't have the inclination to follow up Project Peanut; I don't have the background for this.

I fully understand why this has been done, to stop people who only intermittently get the urge, but for someone like me it's a major bloody inconvenience, so inert gas it most likely is.

(The above is not an opener for a discussion, it's an FYI for a different perspective. Please don't respond).

Re: It's getting harder to die

#169

Post by LorenPechtel »

kqr wrote: post #74
tremon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you’re going to have a painful death with or without the tubes But I feel that was the main point at the start of the thread: if death is certain and going to be painful, why must we drag it out? Why is that additional lifespan (measured in days) so much more important than comfort?

The point is that it's not certain. With the medical assistance you might recover fine and live another five happy years. Is it really worth trading away that opportunity just to not accidentally die on a ventilator? I'm not sure.

It depends on the situation.

If it's part of a long decay I would categorically refuse anything like that. If it's due to an abrupt and fixable thing give it a try.

Re: It's getting harder to die

#170

Post by TexanFeller »

jezzamon wrote: post #83
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #77

I'd like dying to be as easy as flicking a switch. Medically-assisted suicide ought to be available to anyone (not only of sound mind and not only with a terminal condition), and at any time. People ought to have the right to die, just like they have the right to water, food, and shelter. In most countries it is currently easier to take other people's lives than to take one's own. People ought to be able to step into…

How do you reconcile that with many people that attempted suicide due to some illness like depression, and then later very much we're glad they didn't die. "Only of sound mind" sounds difficult to measure. Related: Majority of gun deaths in the USA are suicides. In the gun control debate you might want to exclude those, right? But actually having ready access to a way to die increases the total number of suicides - i…

> How do you reconcile that with many people that attempted suicide due to some illness like depression, and then later very much we're glad they didn't die

You don't have to, it's not your business, it's their right to make that choice and no one else's. "My body, my choice" applies to suicide even more than abortion, if you don't control your own life and body you can't call yourself a free man.

I disagree with dismissing someone's decision because they have a mental illness like depression too. Depression and other issues don't always respond to treatment, and even when they do it's often after trying different treatments for months! I've been through very dark times with depression, OCD, and much more. I live a life of luxury now that most of the country would envy with a wonderful wife. If I knew I had to face a year or too of my past issues again and I would get to spend the last 40 years in my wonderful life again afterwards I don't think it would be worth suffering like that for a year. Some issues like OCD really are that bad. If someone with a mental illness wants to die, offer to help, but respect their decision if they don't accept.

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