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Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

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Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#71

Post by keiferski »

TheRoque wrote: post #66
keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

Maybe, just maybe, sometimes a free market is not the solution ? The US people have the lowest life expectancy and the most money spent amongst rich countries [1]. I am not 100% sure, but it seems to me that all the other rich countries have a more government-controlled healthcare ? [1]: https://www.kff.org/other/slide/the-u-s-has-the-lowest-life-...

I don't think the situation in the US is as market-based as these kinds of comments imply. There are a ton of regulations in the US healthcare market and quite a lot of anti-competitive corporate influence, probably even more than in some other countries.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#72

Post by alwillis »

mahdi7d1 wrote: post #53
keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

There is no solution. The problem is not in the lack of funding or interest from investors. The public itself is not interested in preventing. They think the probability of something bad happening for them is low (for example heart attack) thus they are not willing to put in the effort and proactively try to prevent it (for example by exercising). This can be either from a lack of accurate data or even when the data…

> The public itself is not interested in preventing. They think the probability of something bad happening for them is low

Which is ironic because we all know someone who’s had a heart attack, cancer or a stroke.

And if someone decides to make lifestyle changes, they’re often going against society and the medical establishment.

A friend recently was able to stop taking her diabetes and hypertension meds after she did things her doctors discouraged her from doing, like intermittent fasting, which I told her about.

Now she distrusts doctors because they told her she’d have take these meds for the rest of her life.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#73

Post by TheRoque »

keiferski wrote: post #71
TheRoque wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, just maybe, sometimes a free market is not the solution ? The US people have the lowest life expectancy and the most money spent amongst rich countries [1]. I am not 100% sure, but it seems to me that all the other rich countries have a more government-controlled healthcare ? [1]: https://www.kff.org/other/slide/the-u-s-has-the-lowest-life-...

I don't think the situation in the US is as market-based as these kinds of comments imply. There are a ton of regulations in the US healthcare market and quite a lot of anti-competitive corporate influence, probably even more than in some other countries.

Regulations don't imply that the healthcare is backed by the government, it's a different thing

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#74

Post by gwervc »

gniv wrote: post #18
keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

Here in France there seem to be a lot of subsidies for physical activity. For example, each town has a swimming pool, used by kids and adults alike, with very cheap membership. Then there are the associations, each focused on an activity -- tennis, badminton, pilates, etc. If you pay in September for the year, it's again quite cheap. There are of course typical gyms, but the associations are much more popular afaict.

It's cheap only for a few sports. The martial art I'd like to do is at least 200€/year in the few clubs of my town, plus additional fees for administrative stuff like license and "passport".

And then membership is often based on somewhat calendar years starting in September, so if you don't register exactly at this moment the cost per month is even higher.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#75

Post by ramblerman »

old_bayes wrote: post #9
peter_retief wrote: post #3

I think the positive effects for physical exercise in cognition and hypertension are fairly well known. There are other factors like alcohol consumption and stress have high correlation on the downside as well. I have a family history of alzheimer's and have hypertension so have a personal interest in looking after my mental health. What I can recommend from personal experience is: 1) Regular exercise with a routine…

Jesus, you manage stress by doing chores?

If you find chores stressful how do you handle a high stakes situation?

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#76

Post by jiriknesl »

CalRobert wrote: post #57
keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

Well, one clear market-based solution would be pricing transportation appropriately. If people were allowed to not pay for car infrastructure (via parking minimums, restrictive zoning, taxpayer-funded highways, etc. et.) and take their bike and train instead there would be a strong price signal to encourage the healthier activity. I moved to the Netherlands a year ago and have already lost 9kg (about 20 pounds) witho…

This policy would be too unrelated to health.

You can have a sedentary person who works from home and orders takeaways.

You can have a person who has a car who goes to gym 4 times per week, hikes during weekends and plays tennis 2 times per week and eats healthy food.

There is no reason to tax the second person more than the first one.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#77

Post by richardw »

keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

Insurance/banking company I worked for has made billions from incentives. Exercise, getting preventative tests, driving slower, reducing dangerous credit behaviour. Works in their market (might not in yours) and the clientele has self selected, so now they have a huge client base who largely follow incentives, which reduces their risks massively. If you drive fast you go elsewhere. That’s half the secret. It’s harder to replicate without the client base.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#78

Post by keiferski »

TheRoque wrote: post #73
keiferski wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the situation in the US is as market-based as these kinds of comments imply. There are a ton of regulations in the US healthcare market and quite a lot of anti-competitive corporate influence, probably even more than in some other countries.

Regulations don't imply that the healthcare is backed by the government, it's a different thing

I’m just saying that the idea of “the healthcare system in the US is extremely market based” is not really accurate. If anything it seems less affected by market dynamics than healthcare in other places.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#79

Post by Unbefleckt »

graemep wrote: post #22
keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

Treating long term is a lot more profitable than curing too. One of the worst things that ever happened to pharmaceutical industry profits was the the discovery that most ulcers can be cheaply cured with antibiotics (which won the discovers a well deserved Nobel prize). Even after this ulcer drugs were hugely profitable. I cannot remember the numbers from when I was an analyst covering them (more than 20 years ago!),…

I don't think "have to" is correct here. I've lived without savings and income without ever eating any unhealthy foods.Education and motivation is a big deal.

Re: Vigorous Exercise, Cognitive Decline, and High Blood Pressure

#80

Post by Unbefleckt »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #6
keiferski wrote: post #4

I am no expert on the public health system and so I'm more than willing to be educated/corrected here, but I have the following impression: There is more money to be made by stakeholders treating health problems than there is in preventing them. And so there is a lot more money and effort invested in developing pharmaceutical and treatment solutions than there is in preventing the problems they treat – even though th…

The barrier to exercise isn’t money in most cases. It is that exercise is misery. Exercise sucks. I am overweight. I much prefer Ozempic (and pay a substantial premium for it) vs lifestyle change. So do millions of other Americans who are shelling out for it. You would basically need to economically torture fat people to the point that exercise is less horrible than your incentives. I’m paying 8K a year to avoid exer…

Whenever I think about the exercise I'm doing being unpleasant, I remember how unpleasant existing was as an unfit out of shape person day to day.
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