This sounds silly. 70% is ~5.4% yearly, 40% is 3.4% growth yearly. Seems, fine? These are incredibly reasonable growth rates. Am I missing something?
For comparison, 2012-2019 in SF was 88% growth over 7 years, or >9% year over year growth.
Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments
161–170 of 375 posts
Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's interesting hotels that feel like an AirBnB don't really exist. Even though the professional AirBnB hosts are doing all the functions that hotels do. Why not the reverse.
What do you mean by a hotel that feels like an Airbnb? If you want to stay at a place that has a kitchen, and multiple bedrooms, there are suite hotels (eg. Homewood suites) and extended stay hotels. If you want someone to host you, then a bed and breakfast is another type of accommodation.
Or, holiday homes. These are furnished short term rental apartments with kitchens, often washing machines and dishwashers, etc. Common in parts of Europe. But at least in Germany they are well regulated and you actually sign a rental contract for your stay. I suspect that makes them a lot less accessible for tourists from abroad.
Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments
#163Airbnb has made it unnecessary to have friends in city X who will gladly let you couch surf - because lets face it: hotels are a prohibitive rip off. Hotel owners must hate it. To me it seems much more likely that this is the reason for such bans because in housing terms the number of Airbnb properties seems far too small to make a difference.
Don't worry, at least here in the US the ridiculous fees that are being charged by homeowners are making hotels seems worth it again, no legislation required.
Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where in Barcelona would you increase density? https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/barcelona-pop... from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40752920 ("Barcelona has a 16,000 people per square km density - that’s already one of the highest in Europe.") Capital moves faster than meat space. To defend the human (affordable housing), you have to regulate. The whole "just build more, I want my AirBnB" argumen…
Except there don’t appear to be anywhere near enough airbnbs to put a dent in the rent increase. I’m not saying it won’t do anything; I’m just saying it won’t do much. If you want to lower rents, you’re going to need to find a place to build, and if you can’t find any place, then prices will continue to go up and who will you find to scape goat then?
It doesn’t have to do much, it just has to show some net benefit considering the cost to ban is low. Locals receive the consumer excess through reduced housing costs that would’ve otherwise been real estate investor and AirBnB short term rental profits.
Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments
#165Barcelona has a population of ~1.7 million. The metro area surrounding is ~5.7 million. The metro area grew by ~100k in the past four years. They are freeing up ~10,000 houses over the next four years with this legislation. Barcelona built ~15,000 new properties between 2011 and 2020. The math don't math. It's a drop in the bucket. The entire impact of AirBnB + all housing built in the last decade does not offset the…
The issue is that the "airbnb" areas drive normal citizens out which during off-seasons drains foot traffic making local shops go out of business which further complicates the problem. Not to mention that most tourists don't even sit around the local area, but rather go to the city attractions. Airbnb and resident housing areas are just not compatible, they have different needs and require different infrastructure. H…
The problem with hotel rooms is that they’re more expensive, get much more expensive per additional person, and don’t have the amenities of an appartement.
If I’m somewhere with a group for longer than three days, we want to be able to hang somewhere and cook our own food. The only other thing that offers this feature set is private rooms in hostels, and those are both rare and nearly always fully booked.
I’m not saying having a good base for vacationing is anywhere near as important as residential housing supply, but saying “just book hotels lol” takes a very dim view on AirBnBs.
Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments
#166Honest question: does this work? It seems to me that this change will have unintended effects and will fail to produce the desired results. AFAIK rent in NYC hasn’t gone down since they changed their short-term rental regulations. I might be naive, but I’d assume that the solution is to build more housing to increase the supply instead of curbing the demand? Genuinely curious about others’ takes on this.
Where in Barcelona would you increase density? https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-cities/barcelona-pop... from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40752920 ("Barcelona has a 16,000 people per square km density - that’s already one of the highest in Europe.") Capital moves faster than meat space. To defend the human (affordable housing), you have to regulate. The whole "just build more, I want my AirBnB" argumen…
> I want my BnB...
Now, that's the way you do it.
You play the market with a BnB.
That ain't workin': that's the way you do it.
Money for nothin' and your rent for free.
Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because we're adults that realize garbage dumps shouldn't be next to schools. And sometimes as society we make decisions that are good for the majority of people. I'm sure you'd love it if someone poisoned your ground water, but they did it by burying toxic materials on their property.
When Airbnb landlords won't rent to locals at all because it's not convenient enough for them do so what will you do for the good of the majority of the people? Forcefully seize their apartment because people need it?
Those property rights exist because the locals consent to them. If the landlords' behavior undermines that consent then it only makes sense that the locals would revoke the property rights.
How else, besides continued maintenance of that consent, would property rights get their legitimacy?
Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is when the government, not the tenants, pay the rent
How so? What about if the government pays 50% and the tenant pays 50%? Where exactly is this line drawn?
In this specific instance, city government bought out entire hotels, reducing room inventory.
Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because we're adults that realize garbage dumps shouldn't be next to schools. And sometimes as society we make decisions that are good for the majority of people. I'm sure you'd love it if someone poisoned your ground water, but they did it by burying toxic materials on their property.
When Airbnb landlords won't rent to locals at all because it's not convenient enough for them do so what will you do for the good of the majority of the people? Forcefully seize their apartment because people need it?
No need to forcibly sieze it. Simply outlaw dedicated short term rentals of apartments and houses and let the owners decide what to do with their apartment after that.
Re: Barcelona will eliminate tourist apartments
#170Good. Tourists should sleep in hotels and locals should sleep in their flats. Platforms like AirBnB only put oil in the fire when it comes to housing crises.
> Tourists should sleep in hotels and locals should sleep in their flats. What if we let people decide what they should/n't do with their own property instead?
Hold on, gonna go fire up some garbage incinerators in my yard to help pay for my mortgage.