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'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#221

Post by stavros »

LoganDark wrote: post #219
stavros wrote: post #210

I notice that we've been seeing a lot of articles here about how e-bikes have motor problems, how EVs don't sell, how EVs have issues, how they "aren't really green", etc, yet we never see any such articles for ICE cars and motorcycles. I wonder why there's such interest in maligning green ways of transportation.

I think it's just because EVs (and PEVs) are relatively new and promising. I recently purchased an electric scooter, and that sort of form factor can be very difficult to fit an ICE into. Not like it can't or hasn't been done, but the instant torque I get from dual hub motors is far superior to any combustion engine.

How do you like the scooter? I have an ICE motorcycle, and I hate how loud and dirty it is. I'd like an electric one, but they're very expensive, and with electric scooters/ebikes I worry that they'll get stolen (as with a good bike).

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#222

Post by LoganDark »

stavros wrote: post #220
bgnn wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only normal and a good thing. Both are adopted as main stream now and they start to age and fail in large numbers, as one would expect. People are disappointed, as one would expect. This will drive the quality up. I don't think there's any intention to malign green transportation. I think there's no return form EVs anymore. Ebikes are a bit ahead of EVs in certain aspects. They had a quick boom, a lot of new…

I hope there's no return from EVs, but this "some ebikes had problems" sort of thing is only useful for maligning ebikes, as it doesn't really do much for either owners or prospective buyers. It's true about parts, I'd hope that, given how simple ebikes are, there would be a tendency to use easily-replaceable, off-the-shelf components, but I guess companies do want to design custom parts, as that's where they provide…

Ebikes have a lot of easily-replaceable, off-the-shelf components, those shelves just aren't available to consumers. Obviously, this needs to change.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#223

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

stavros wrote: post #210

I notice that we've been seeing a lot of articles here about how e-bikes have motor problems, how EVs don't sell, how EVs have issues, how they "aren't really green", etc, yet we never see any such articles for ICE cars and motorcycles. I wonder why there's such interest in maligning green ways of transportation.

Because ICE continue to sell well, because most serious makes have sorted most issues (a cheap car having issues isn't news for anybody), everybody knows ICE isn't green, etc...

Another proof that conspiracy theories aren't exclusive to the right, try some of Occam's razor.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#224

Post by dclowd9901 »

stavros wrote: post #210

I notice that we've been seeing a lot of articles here about how e-bikes have motor problems, how EVs don't sell, how EVs have issues, how they "aren't really green", etc, yet we never see any such articles for ICE cars and motorcycles. I wonder why there's such interest in maligning green ways of transportation.

Maybe it’s just that ICEs don’t have these issues because the kinks have been sufficiently worked out.

There’s really a lot to criticize about the current state of electric. Flimsy range numbers, build quality from most manufacturers, reliability issues, charging time, hidden costs around outfitting your house, no real solution to the drivetrain having a severely limited shelf life.

I definitely think electric is the future, and I’m glad for it, but they are _not there_ from a “replace ICE wholesale” standpoint. They need more of their kinks worked out. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t continue to work on them or adopt them for their limited efficacy. Most people don’t need all of the benefits ICE cars offer and for them, electric right now is ideal.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#225

Post by Etheryte »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #105
Etheryte wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're glossing over the fact that internal gear hub transmissions easily cost in the hundreds, whereas you can get a derailleur for a tenner or so. I've owned a number of bikes in my life and all of them have been cheaper than the transmission you suggest everyone should use.

An internal transmission hub replaces a hub, cassette, and derailleur and starts at less than $100 for the whole kit. A derailleur can cost $10, but it won’t be nearly as durable. Buying a high quality one is gonna cost in the same neighborhood as $100.

I'm not really seeing the argument. I've never had a derailleur break, if anything, this sounds like some supreme yak shaving. Granted, I don't ride bikes for a living, but I ride a bike every day and durability isn't even remotely as big of an issue as you make it out to be.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#226

Post by stavros »

BoingBoomTschak wrote: post #223
stavros wrote: post #210

I notice that we've been seeing a lot of articles here about how e-bikes have motor problems, how EVs don't sell, how EVs have issues, how they "aren't really green", etc, yet we never see any such articles for ICE cars and motorcycles. I wonder why there's such interest in maligning green ways of transportation.

Because ICE continue to sell well, because most serious makes have sorted most issues (a cheap car having issues isn't news for anybody), everybody knows ICE isn't green, etc... Another proof that conspiracy theories aren't exclusive to the right, try some of Occam's razor.

If you think that "companies will promote articles that malign competing products" and "9/11 was an inside job" are the same level of conspiracy theory, I don't think any fruitful conversation can result.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#227

Post by bell-cot »

bjackman wrote: post #213
jll29 wrote: post #203

"The latest units are protected against dust and splash water, according to protection class IP54, and most error codes caused by magnetic interference disappear on restart." This used of "latest" implies Bosch's engineers initially assumed dust and splash water aren't a thing, so by the sound of it they design indoor bike motors for people who hoover very regularly. It's the second part that worries me more, though:…

Not sure an IP rating alone gives you the information you need for this usecase. A [mountain] bike motor doesn't just need to resist ingress, it needs to do so after hundreds of hours of violent shaking while its external bearings are under heavy load. It should also tolerate a certain amount of direct impact. I can certainly imagine this being tricky to achieve for a few hundred $! > Don't people bike because they w…

"In a healthy city..."

Speaking of things which are (evidently) "tricky to achieve"...

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#228

Post by Aardwolf »

jll29 wrote: post #203

"The latest units are protected against dust and splash water, according to protection class IP54, and most error codes caused by magnetic interference disappear on restart." This used of "latest" implies Bosch's engineers initially assumed dust and splash water aren't a thing, so by the sound of it they design indoor bike motors for people who hoover very regularly. It's the second part that worries me more, though:…

Sounds like they got various brittle sensors and electronics that make the thing break earlier than it should, while in theory the motor should just work if you apply high enough voltage to it. I don't think the main coils of the actual motor would care about a little bit of magnetic field from a traffic light sensor.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#229

Post by andrewshadura »

ivandenysov wrote: post #173
wyre wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d argue fixing a flat on a IGH or fixed gear/single speed is easier than a geared bike. Hardest thing about a single speed is needing the proper tool to remove the axle nuts, but after that take the chain off the cog and the wheel will slip right out, just as easy to put back in, just reverse the process. Getting chain tension can be tricky, but tighten the drive side bolt first at the point the chainline has about…

Unfortunately all IGHs are not created equal. Removing a back wheel with a Shimano Nexus with a coast break is a lot harder than removing a back wheel with a Rohloff.

It’s not difficult at all, just release the clickbox, unscrew two axle nuts, unscrew the brake arm. If you have any chain tensioners, slightly unscrew each the same amount.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#230

Post by LoganDark »

stavros wrote: post #221
LoganDark wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just because EVs (and PEVs) are relatively new and promising. I recently purchased an electric scooter, and that sort of form factor can be very difficult to fit an ICE into. Not like it can't or hasn't been done, but the instant torque I get from dual hub motors is far superior to any combustion engine.

How do you like the scooter? I have an ICE motorcycle, and I hate how loud and dirty it is. I'd like an electric one, but they're very expensive, and with electric scooters/ebikes I worry that they'll get stolen (as with a good bike).

Good e-scooters / e-bikes can be had for only $1-2k, in my limited experience. Not sure what the typical cost for a motorcycle is, but I'd be surprised if it's too much less than that.

I started with a $900 Segway Ninebot MAX G2 (1×1000W) a couple weeks ago, but it didn't have enough power for my needs. Even in sport mode, it would stall on some pretty slight inclines. So I picked up an $1800 Maxfun 10 PRO (2×1500W), just a couple days ago, actually.

I do like the added speed and hill climbing ability, but the compromise in features and build quality is astonishing. The Ninebot is so, so much better. If only the motor were three or four times more powerful...

As for it getting stolen, with a scooter (as opposed to a bike or motorcycle) I've so far had a 100% success rate just bringing it with me through the door. Serious. Nobody bats an eye at me bringing my scooter into the pharmacy, any number of fast food places, grocery stores, etc. Not super easy or likely for someone to steal the scooter from right next to me.

YMMV with that, depending on how friendly your area is to PEVs, but everyone here seems cool with it. It's honestly great. Not only that, but I can store it inside my house when it's not being used, to charge it, work on it, and protect it from the weather.

The Ninebot can only be locked with an app over Bluetooth, while the Maxfun can be locked with an NFC key (I far prefer this). But you can also of course use a normal bike lock as well if you ever have to let it out of your sight.

Anyway, I love the scooter. It's had some issues but it mostly came down to me popping the tire on the first day by making it eat a curb (oops). Somehow, the scooter managed not to care whatsoever. No trip, no fall, no damage to the frame or suspension, only the inner tube which was easy to replace once I got back home. Good as new now.

If you do ever get an electric scooter, it will probably take an hour or two to learn proper weight transfer, but it's extremely easy.

Note: if you get an electric scooter, it's extremely important to check your local laws first. Electric bikes usually have laws that are fairly self-consistent and useful, because they are essentially the poster child for PEVs. Electric scooters, however, often have laws that are unnecessarily restricting or even entirely contradictory, because all of the work that has been put into electric bike laws has entirely overlooked the existence of electric scooters, leaving them in often very precarious positions. Any laws that have exceptions for electric bikes will most likely not have any exception for electric scooters. For example, in my local area electric bikes are allowed on sidewalks in parks and electric scooters are not, despite the scooter being far smaller and less obnoxious than any bike.

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