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'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

theguardian.com

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Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#211

Post by ralfd »

jll29 wrote: post #203

"The latest units are protected against dust and splash water, according to protection class IP54, and most error codes caused by magnetic interference disappear on restart." This used of "latest" implies Bosch's engineers initially assumed dust and splash water aren't a thing, so by the sound of it they design indoor bike motors for people who hoover very regularly. It's the second part that worries me more, though:…

> Don't people bike because they want to get fit?

In my city people bike because they want to get from A to B.

E-bikes are great for that! They enable reasonable fast biking without breaking into sweat (good for commuting) and in hilly areas.

First they enabled senior citizens to bike fast and longer. Then came the mountain e-bikes and made it cool. Than the city hipsters. Then family mum and dad zipping their children around:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhzEnWCgHA&t=168s

> If not, get a proper motorbike.

Motorbikes are loud and heavy and more expensive. You need a helmet and have to use the road instead of bike lanes. You need a driving license.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#213

Post by bjackman »

jll29 wrote: post #203

"The latest units are protected against dust and splash water, according to protection class IP54, and most error codes caused by magnetic interference disappear on restart." This used of "latest" implies Bosch's engineers initially assumed dust and splash water aren't a thing, so by the sound of it they design indoor bike motors for people who hoover very regularly. It's the second part that worries me more, though:…

Not sure an IP rating alone gives you the information you need for this usecase.

A [mountain] bike motor doesn't just need to resist ingress, it needs to do so after hundreds of hours of violent shaking while its external bearings are under heavy load. It should also tolerate a certain amount of direct impact.

I can certainly imagine this being tricky to achieve for a few hundred $!

> Don't people bike because they want to get fit?

No. I personally ride a _non-motorized_ bike for the health benefits, but I ride a _bike_ as a means of transport. I want as many people as possible to do this, it's better for everyone if people cycle. E-bikes are a fantastic way to expand the pool of potential cyclists.

"Bikes are for sporty people" is a symptom of a car-centric environment. In a healthy city, bikes are an option for everyone who has full mobility.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#214

Post by nikanj »

stavros wrote: post #210

I notice that we've been seeing a lot of articles here about how e-bikes have motor problems, how EVs don't sell, how EVs have issues, how they "aren't really green", etc, yet we never see any such articles for ICE cars and motorcycles. I wonder why there's such interest in maligning green ways of transportation.

Why? Because people click & share those articles (”lol see turns out ebikes generate so much waste I’m way more green taking my F250 to work every day”)

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#215

Post by nikanj »

jll29 wrote: post #203

"The latest units are protected against dust and splash water, according to protection class IP54, and most error codes caused by magnetic interference disappear on restart." This used of "latest" implies Bosch's engineers initially assumed dust and splash water aren't a thing, so by the sound of it they design indoor bike motors for people who hoover very regularly. It's the second part that worries me more, though:…

Some people walk because they’re trying to get to the office, some people walk to lose weight, some people walk to enjoy sunday afternoon with their partner

Biking is just as diverse.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#216

Post by stavros »

nikanj wrote: post #214
stavros wrote: post #210

I notice that we've been seeing a lot of articles here about how e-bikes have motor problems, how EVs don't sell, how EVs have issues, how they "aren't really green", etc, yet we never see any such articles for ICE cars and motorcycles. I wonder why there's such interest in maligning green ways of transportation.

Why? Because people click & share those articles (”lol see turns out ebikes generate so much waste I’m way more green taking my F250 to work every day”)

Yes, and also because some companies have a vested interest in people taking their F250 to work every day, is my point.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#217

Post by adammarples »

jll29 wrote: post #203

"The latest units are protected against dust and splash water, according to protection class IP54, and most error codes caused by magnetic interference disappear on restart." This used of "latest" implies Bosch's engineers initially assumed dust and splash water aren't a thing, so by the sound of it they design indoor bike motors for people who hoover very regularly. It's the second part that worries me more, though:…

From the article it seems that this problem is mostly coming from bikers with mountain bikes, riding in wet Wales off road. It looks like for the general case (on street, commuting) that ebikes are working as intended. For mountain bikers it is possible to simply get a mountain bike but where ebikes shine here is the ability to scoot back up the mountain after riding down.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#218

Post by bgnn »

stavros wrote: post #210

I notice that we've been seeing a lot of articles here about how e-bikes have motor problems, how EVs don't sell, how EVs have issues, how they "aren't really green", etc, yet we never see any such articles for ICE cars and motorcycles. I wonder why there's such interest in maligning green ways of transportation.

This is only normal and a good thing. Both are adopted as main stream now and they start to age and fail in large numbers, as one would expect. People are disappointed, as one would expect. This will drive the quality up. I don't think there's any intention to malign green transportation. I think there's no return form EVs anymore.

Ebikes are a bit ahead of EVs in certain aspects. They had a quick boom, a lot of new brands came up with different models and designs but now most of them are going bankrupt because the sales are slowing down. The main reason is not people don't buy ebikes anymore, but they already bought one! What I find stupid is there are only 3-4 companies producing motors or electronics for ebikes. These parts, as the article points out, are not sourced to customers for repairs. This has to change for more sustainability.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#219

Post by LoganDark »

stavros wrote: post #210

I notice that we've been seeing a lot of articles here about how e-bikes have motor problems, how EVs don't sell, how EVs have issues, how they "aren't really green", etc, yet we never see any such articles for ICE cars and motorcycles. I wonder why there's such interest in maligning green ways of transportation.

I think it's just because EVs (and PEVs) are relatively new and promising. I recently purchased an electric scooter, and that sort of form factor can be very difficult to fit an ICE into. Not like it can't or hasn't been done, but the instant torque I get from dual hub motors is far superior to any combustion engine.

Re: 'The big problem is water': UK ebike owners plagued by failing motors

#220

Post by stavros »

bgnn wrote: post #218
stavros wrote: post #210

I notice that we've been seeing a lot of articles here about how e-bikes have motor problems, how EVs don't sell, how EVs have issues, how they "aren't really green", etc, yet we never see any such articles for ICE cars and motorcycles. I wonder why there's such interest in maligning green ways of transportation.

This is only normal and a good thing. Both are adopted as main stream now and they start to age and fail in large numbers, as one would expect. People are disappointed, as one would expect. This will drive the quality up. I don't think there's any intention to malign green transportation. I think there's no return form EVs anymore. Ebikes are a bit ahead of EVs in certain aspects. They had a quick boom, a lot of new…

I hope there's no return from EVs, but this "some ebikes had problems" sort of thing is only useful for maligning ebikes, as it doesn't really do much for either owners or prospective buyers.

It's true about parts, I'd hope that, given how simple ebikes are, there would be a tendency to use easily-replaceable, off-the-shelf components, but I guess companies do want to design custom parts, as that's where they provide value.

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