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Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

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Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#51

Post by bossyTeacher »

throw0101d wrote: post #44
amarant wrote: post #25

It kinda bothers me that airlines are still placing orders for new Boeing airplanes. Taking delivery of old orders is one thing, since they can't really back out of those, but placing new orders implies that some level of trust remains for this company, and I just don't see how that makes any sense at all?

> It kinda bothers me that airlines are still placing orders for new Boeing airplanes. Are they? Boeing had almost nine hundred 737 MAX orders in 2023; in 2024 they have 66: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_737_MAX_orders_... Three hundred 787 orders in 2023; 10 in 2024: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_787_orders_and_... One hundred 777s in 2023, twenty-seven in 2024: * https://en.wikiped…

> And who else are you going to order from? Airbus? How much capacity do they have to build more?

the obvious choice is not to order rather than ordering faulty places because your greeds tells you that risking people's safety is worth the money you will get

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#52

Post by senordevnyc »

belter wrote: post #21
blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Dutch Roll is a coupled out of phase movement of the aircraft as result of weakened directional stability (provided by the vertical tail and rudder), in which the aircraft oscillates around its vertical as well as longitudinal axis (coupled yaw and roll)." That sounds pretty scary. I wonder why it wasn't bigger news when it happened last month?

It can torn off the engines from the main body structure: https://asn.flightsafety.org/asndb/333926

While true, this was a pretty different situation in that it was 1959 (engineering standards have changed a lot in the last 65 years), and the dutch rolls were being performed intentionally for demonstration purposes.

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#53

Post by bradleyjg »

amarant wrote: post #25

It kinda bothers me that airlines are still placing orders for new Boeing airplanes. Taking delivery of old orders is one thing, since they can't really back out of those, but placing new orders implies that some level of trust remains for this company, and I just don't see how that makes any sense at all?

Do you think your car (or bike) is safer or more dangerous than the least safe Boeing plane in service?

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#54

Post by HPsquared »

belter wrote: post #41
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, could this be caused by turbulence? Winds? Looking at the video, now i'm not sure I haven't been through some dutch rolls also.

The FAA reported: "AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCED A DUTCH ROLL, REGAINED CONTROL AND POST FLIGHT INSPECTION REVEALED DAMAGE TO THE STANDBY PCU, OAKLAND, CA." and stated the aircraft sustained substantial damage, the occurrence was rated an accident.

Standby PCU sounds like a control system. Was that a cause or effect of the event?

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#55

Post by PeterHolzwarth »

amarant wrote: post #25

It kinda bothers me that airlines are still placing orders for new Boeing airplanes. Taking delivery of old orders is one thing, since they can't really back out of those, but placing new orders implies that some level of trust remains for this company, and I just don't see how that makes any sense at all?

It's interesting to see the dynamic of the downward spiral (no pun intended) "pile on" media cascade mechanic in action, through your comment.

What I mean is, you are assuming now (you probably wouldn't have a year ago) that this Dutch Roll incident was caused by the plane being Boeing. So, why would anyone even buy a Boeing at this point?

But what indication is there of that this Dutch Roll incident was caused by the plane being Boeing? As far as I can tell, Dutch Roll is a phenomena whose causes aren't fully understood, that rarely, but occasionally, happens to planes, not just to Boeing planes.

But now that we are collectively bought-in on a Boeing hate-fest (and they certainly seem to have brought it on themselves, no doubt!), we just knee-jerk apply the cause to any issue seen as being explained by the aircraft being Boeing.

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#56

Post by doctor_eval »

kcplate wrote: post #29
jamesholden wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I know the humorless HN is downvoting you but I gave you an upvote. Farts and fart jokes are always funny.

It’s being downvoted because it’s technically incorrect. They are describing a Dutch Oven.

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#57

Post by salawat »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #40
amarant wrote: post #25

It kinda bothers me that airlines are still placing orders for new Boeing airplanes. Taking delivery of old orders is one thing, since they can't really back out of those, but placing new orders implies that some level of trust remains for this company, and I just don't see how that makes any sense at all?

No fan of Boeing. But where are you going to go to buy something else? There is only Airbus. There isn't a huge competitive market, it is just 2 companies left standing. Perhaps a good argument for fighting monopolies? And, while Boeing looks bad, when sales go down, corporations adapt. The pesky customers want "Safety", and we aren't selling "Safety", got to get some of this "Safety". Guess we better do some re-orgs…

>The pesky customers want "Safety", and we aren't selling "Safety", got to get some of this "Safety". Guess we better do some re-orgs, some focus groups, some training to make sure everyone knows "Safety" is important. Maybe throw in some training on "Quality".

Gah hahahaha.

Oh God, don't make me laugh that hard. One does not merely add some more Quality to a product as if it were flour in a cooking recipe. Quality is literally the single most difficult to add back to something once you've decided to skimp on it; as quality itself is a compound output. It's a result of having your entire goddamn company devoted to the goal of creating a quantitatively superior product.

Boeing decided it was time to not sweat the package, and to turn itself into a financial product. As it turns out; it's pretty much impossible to do one while not doing the other...

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#59

Post by rl3 »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #30
Havoc wrote: post #18

Thing is this could just keep going. There’s no telling how many bad apples Boeing put out there

If it's a software issue, I'd think owners would be pretty clear on its status on each plane. But for physical defects, yeah that's scary.

>If it's a software issue, I'd think owners would be pretty clear on its status on each plane.

Ha. I have some bad news for you:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-...

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