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Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

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Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#41

Post by belter »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #35
kcplate wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it’s worse than it looks? The video was kind of a dramatic let down to be honest. I preferred the mystery.

Yeah, could this be caused by turbulence? Winds? Looking at the video, now i'm not sure I haven't been through some dutch rolls also.

The FAA reported: "AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCED A DUTCH ROLL, REGAINED CONTROL AND POST FLIGHT INSPECTION REVEALED DAMAGE TO THE STANDBY PCU, OAKLAND, CA." and stated the aircraft sustained substantial damage, the occurrence was rated an accident.

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#42

Post by ceejayoz »

kcplate wrote: post #27
tjpnz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a video demonstrating it: https://youtu.be/Zmjam1evDD4

I guess it’s worse than it looks? The video was kind of a dramatic let down to be honest. I preferred the mystery.

A real-world video looks a lot scarier.

Linked downthread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tgfkGiHhxs

Especially if close to the ground.

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#43

Post by JWlrCk9PkipFTDq »

kcplate wrote: post #27
tjpnz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a video demonstrating it: https://youtu.be/Zmjam1evDD4

I guess it’s worse than it looks? The video was kind of a dramatic let down to be honest. I preferred the mystery.

It looks a bit more intense in real footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tgfkGiHhxs

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#44

Post by throw0101d »

amarant wrote: post #25

It kinda bothers me that airlines are still placing orders for new Boeing airplanes. Taking delivery of old orders is one thing, since they can't really back out of those, but placing new orders implies that some level of trust remains for this company, and I just don't see how that makes any sense at all?

> It kinda bothers me that airlines are still placing orders for new Boeing airplanes.

Are they? Boeing had almost nine hundred 737 MAX orders in 2023; in 2024 they have 66:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_737_MAX_orders_...

Three hundred 787 orders in 2023; 10 in 2024:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_787_orders_and_...

One hundred 777s in 2023, twenty-seven in 2024:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_777_orders_and_...

Their numbers are down bigly.

And who else are you going to order from? Airbus? How much capacity do they have to build more?

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#45

Post by ceejayoz »

notfried wrote: post #10

This is what a Dutch Roll looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zmjam1evDD4

This seems to really under-sell the severity; the real-world example someone else linked is much more dramatic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tgfkGiHhxs

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#46

Post by SonicScrub »

drcongo wrote: post #16
blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Dutch Roll is a coupled out of phase movement of the aircraft as result of weakened directional stability (provided by the vertical tail and rudder), in which the aircraft oscillates around its vertical as well as longitudinal axis (coupled yaw and roll)." That sounds pretty scary. I wonder why it wasn't bigger news when it happened last month?

I wonder if the name is related to the Dutch Tilt camera shot - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_angle

Tha name is believed to be borrowed from an ice skating term:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll

https://www.iceskatesmuseum.com/e-disc-schoon.htm

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#47

Post by ceejayoz »

throw0101d wrote: post #44
amarant wrote: post #25

It kinda bothers me that airlines are still placing orders for new Boeing airplanes. Taking delivery of old orders is one thing, since they can't really back out of those, but placing new orders implies that some level of trust remains for this company, and I just don't see how that makes any sense at all?

> It kinda bothers me that airlines are still placing orders for new Boeing airplanes. Are they? Boeing had almost nine hundred 737 MAX orders in 2023; in 2024 they have 66: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_737_MAX_orders_... Three hundred 787 orders in 2023; 10 in 2024: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_787_orders_and_... One hundred 777s in 2023, twenty-seven in 2024: * https://en.wikiped…

I'd note Airbus is seeing the same pattern. The 737-MAX's A320neo competitor, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A320neo_family_...

1,689 orders in 2023, 154 in 2024.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A220_orders_and...

141 orders in 2023, negative 12 in 2024.

As a result, I presume the explanation is less "no Boeing" and more something like "orders have a reporting lag" or "2023 was a big year for airlines post-COVID".

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#48

Post by albert_e »

kcplate wrote: post #27
tjpnz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a video demonstrating it: https://youtu.be/Zmjam1evDD4

I guess it’s worse than it looks? The video was kind of a dramatic let down to be honest. I preferred the mystery.

this video posted elsewhere here seems dramatic enough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tgfkGiHhxs

Imagine you are in the cockpit at the top of the plane and your view/perspective - for a layman like me this would seem and feel like the flight is completely out of control. Even the passengers are bound to experience dramatic movements similar to severe turbulence I guess.

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#49

Post by adolph »

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Dutch Roll is a coupled out of phase movement of the aircraft as result of weakened directional stability (provided by the vertical tail and rudder), in which the aircraft oscillates around its vertical as well as longitudinal axis (coupled yaw and roll)." That sounds pretty scary. I wonder why it wasn't bigger news when it happened last month?

> why [Dutch Roll] wasn't bigger news

I think the name is a serious problem. Something like “uncontrolled aircraft orientation” is more descriptive. “Dutch Roll” brings to mind thoughts of “is it better than Swiss Cake Roll?” and “is this news-spam for Hostess brand emerging from bankruptcy?”

Re: Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-8 Max Experienced Dutch Roll

#50

Post by Waterluvian »

marcus0x62 wrote: post #24

Years ago, my father in law ( a heavy jet mechanic) got sent to China for two months as part of a team to diagnose and fix a recurring dutch roll complaint on a particular airframe. This was for a A300-series flown by a large freight carrier. The local mechanics couldn’t figure it out, so this team was assembled from the mechanics at headquarters to fix the plane. They inspected the plane and found no damage. They ha…

Eek… I’d never want to fly a plane that’s beneath me. I’d prefer it to be at the same altitude.
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