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Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

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Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#261

Post by m0llusk »

chris_va wrote: post #6

Apologies for being critical, but this reads like the author had a conclusion they wanted to reach and worked backward to some flashy graphs to make it work (the right side of the "lies, damn lies, and statistics" spectrum). There is no discussion of confounders, no control groups or paired studies, and there are million things correlated with the last 50 of societal development years besides the topics mentioned her…

Science starts with discussion. If evidence accumulates and reasonable arguments are made then it may become possible to form a hypothesis or even a theory that might be tested with experimentation. Peer reviewed studies based on randomized trials only come about very late in the process once paradigm change is well under way.

What is happening here is some of the initial discussion of important emerging phenomena that we do not yet understand.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#262

Post by hi-v-rocknroll »

When I was a kid, there was a park near my house in California with a jumping maze of telephone pole segments of various heights in a sand pit. And, a park by my aunt had a decommissioned Korea War-era fighter jet in the sand pit and a steel plate and open diamond grate vertical 2D crawling maze for kids. Today, I checked on Google Maps, it only has some boring, circus-colored, perfectly-safe(-and-boring) play set you already know kids avoid. Not all change is positive progress.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#263

Post by nottorp »

wincy wrote: post #209
_dark_matter_ wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean this happens with my 9 year old. We have a parent group chat and just ask who knows where the crew is

Yep, we have a neighborhood group chat and send over a note with phone numbers when a new person moves in. Works great. She also has an Apple Watch with cellular service in case we need to get ahold of her. I’m happy to say she came home right on time this evening without so much as a phone call though.

So, my kid lobbied for her own cell phone for a year or so when she was in primary school. We finally caved in and got her one.

Then she realized we can now call her and tell her to come home when she's out.

"I'll leave the phone at home, daddy, I'm afraid I'll break it while playing."

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#264

Post by nottorp »

Dalewyn wrote: post #87
bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

>Because in the US they would be roadkill, Have you actually experienced Japanese drivers? They make American drivers look absolutely noble (and truthfully, we are) by comparison. For starters, and this applies to both individual and professional drivers: * They don't give way to emergency vehicles blaring the sirens. * They don't wait for people to finish crossing intersections. * They don't let other drivers into t…

> Most roads are very narrow.

The thing is, you get used to it. Living in an eastern european country that hasn't caught up on infrastructure, I'm used to driving on narrow winding roads.

What happened when I first drove a couple hundred km on a freeway[1]? I had to ask everyone else in the car to keep me talking because I was literally falling asleep.

[1] Or whatever the US term is for the roads with at least 2 lanes, directions separated by a fence and grade separated intersections.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#265

Post by wildrhythms »

bilbo0s wrote: post #76
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my prewar non-car-centric city, kids still walk to school. They don't play outside like previous generations. You'll see the Christmas bikes for a few weeks when it's warm enough in late spring then nothing all summer long.

As a parent, I can tell you video games and smart phones have a lot to do with this.

Maybe because the outside environment is so hostile to kids that being inside on their phones and tablets is more appealing?

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#266

Post by derivagral »

fwip wrote: post #78
zmgsabst wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The volume of uncontrolled migration. Societies regulate the influx of strangers to protect their culture — and the rapid influx of people who don’t share cultural values has damaged American culture.

The Americas went for over 350 years (from 1500 to 1850) before there existed any kinds of controls on immigration. Americans have only ever been afraid of "uncontrolled immigration" when it was non-white immigrants. It was for racist reasons that we passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, and it's for racist reasons now.

> when it was non-white immigrants

Irish and Italians in my area would beg to differ. I'll grant it wasn't federal policy, at least.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#267

Post by nottorp »

Dalewyn wrote: post #193
pezezin wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Aomori, I have been commuting every single day for the last 6 years, and I totally agree with you. There are three more points that make me mad: - Stopping in the middle of the road whenever they feel like it. Just turn on the blinkers and boom, the road became a parking slot! And they don't care if it is a straight segment or the middle of a curve. - Overtaking other cars on the left at an intersection. I…

>Just turn on the blinkers and boom, the road became a parking slot! Taxis and occasionally even limousine buses are notoriously guilty of this...

I wonder what subtle differences are there between road codes across countries.

For example, in my romanian road code you are not permitted to turn right at a red light unless there is a separate green blinking arrow pointing that way (and no, the blinking green isn't always there). I know that in the US the default is you can turn.

How about stopping on the side of the road? Here it's permitted anywhere it's not explicitly forbidden. And I think taxis have an exception and they can really stop anywhere for a few moments to pick up/drop people. They may get cursed at but it's legal.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#268

Post by krapp »

derivagral wrote: post #266
fwip wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Americas went for over 350 years (from 1500 to 1850) before there existed any kinds of controls on immigration. Americans have only ever been afraid of "uncontrolled immigration" when it was non-white immigrants. It was for racist reasons that we passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, and it's for racist reasons now.

> when it was non-white immigrants Irish and Italians in my area would beg to differ. I'll grant it wasn't federal policy, at least.

Irish and Italians weren't always considered white.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#269

Post by inanutshellus »

scarby2 wrote: post #23
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would have thought that two parents working and not technology would have been the major contributor to loss of the community in early periods. I had one working parent and I had a community because I had places to go. My 5 kids had 1 parent at home full time and zero community. For most hours they were trapped in a building with adults. Sometimes they were contained in some highly limited adult-made program. And…

I had 2 working parents and a community. The perceived safety and walkability of an area has a lot to do with it. My parents weren't worried if they didn't see me from morning until dinner time (and obviously they had no way of getting in contact with me other than maybe phoning all the other parents - assuming we weren't off in a field somewhere).

If you had two working parents, but had "community", frankly I'd have to assume it was comprised of kids with homemaker parents, which doesn't count as a counterpoint.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#270

Post by somedude895 »

bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

Why does HN love this narrative so much? The article is about very different causes, cars are mentioned only once in passing. It's getting really stale to have to read this same comment over and over rather than people discussing the topics that TFA is actually about.
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