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Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

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Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#191

Post by irjustin »

richk449 wrote: post #69
jasonfarnon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear a lot about excessive parenting on here but I wonder if it's just a segment of society. Can anyone but wealthy parents have time to occupy their kids 24-7? The freedom I and friends had as a kid was not a decision of my parents so much as a necessity. Parents dont get home from work until 6, school lets out at 2, we get at least 4 free hours of undisturbed freedom. Why would that be different now?

An event that happens much too often to me: My son is playing with other kids. I wander off. When I check back, all the kids are watching a screen. I say “what’s going on?” And some parent says “the kids were getting roudy, so I put on a show to calm them down”.

> My son is playing with other kids. I wander off. When I check back, all the kids are watching a screen. I say “what’s going on?” And some parent says “the kids were getting roudy, so I put on a show to calm them down”.

Ooof this is me on Sundays - the only day allowed screen time, but man yea, if our girls are by themselves then a screen for them and a screen for me and we're all happy.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#192

Post by Dalewyn »

nox101 wrote: post #103
Dalewyn wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because in the US they would be roadkill, Have you actually experienced Japanese drivers? They make American drivers look absolutely noble (and truthfully, we are) by comparison. For starters, and this applies to both individual and professional drivers: * They don't give way to emergency vehicles blaring the sirens. * They don't wait for people to finish crossing intersections. * They don't let other drivers into t…

Lived in Japan 20 years and still spend ~2 months a year there including last month. Never experienced any of this except "most roads are very narrow" which is only semi-true. It's true many small roads are, um, small. But there are plenty of big roads as well. I've never seen dedicated police supervision. I have seen directors around road construction. That's no different than in the states.

Here's some more detail concerning pedestrians crossing intersections that I mentioned earlier.

In America, it is literally against the law to enter an intersection unless you can completely cross it without stopping. That means if a pedestrian is crossing, you wait outside of the intersection for them to finish crossing first.

In Japan? With pedestrians crossing? You enter the intersection and hopefully you stop inches from the crosswalk in the middle of the intersection while you wait for the road to clear and then go through if there is space.

Yes, even professional drivers do it. It's fucking insane if you ask me. How much time do you save? Seconds? And you risk a higher chance of running someone over?

Japan is world renowned for their hospitality, but Japanese drivers are by far some of the biggest assholes I have ever seen in my life.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#193

Post by Dalewyn »

pezezin wrote: post #188
Dalewyn wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because in the US they would be roadkill, Have you actually experienced Japanese drivers? They make American drivers look absolutely noble (and truthfully, we are) by comparison. For starters, and this applies to both individual and professional drivers: * They don't give way to emergency vehicles blaring the sirens. * They don't wait for people to finish crossing intersections. * They don't let other drivers into t…

I live in Aomori, I have been commuting every single day for the last 6 years, and I totally agree with you. There are three more points that make me mad: - Stopping in the middle of the road whenever they feel like it. Just turn on the blinkers and boom, the road became a parking slot! And they don't care if it is a straight segment or the middle of a curve. - Overtaking other cars on the left at an intersection. I…

>Just turn on the blinkers and boom, the road became a parking slot!

Taxis and occasionally even limousine buses are notoriously guilty of this...

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#194

Post by koyote »

alfalfasprout wrote: post #32
bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

You're also putting Europe on a pedestal. In many urban areas (where the majority of the population lives) it's no longer safe for kids to walk + bike to school freely. Not necessarily because of cars but significant crime.

Please don't throw wild vague claims around without substantiating with data/sources.

Crime has decreased pretty much everywhere over the last three decades. I am sure there are pockets in the world where it hasn't, but those would be the exception.

[https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homicide-rates-across-wes...]

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#195

Post by trgn »

ars wrote: post #91
bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

> kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school That's how it's like in the suburbs. There are very few cars, and kids can play and bike on the roads, and go anywhere on their bikes. It's only urban areas that are very car centric and kids can't do that, although they can go on the subway or a bus. The suburbs are much nicer and safer for kids.

Agreed. in suburbs, cul-de-sac neighborhoods and such, you'll still see kids, but only within that fishbowl. It's the core areas where kids are gone. Traffic is also much nastier there. lots of intersections, vagrants skulking around, more through traffic .. much more of an antisocial vibe in general, hard to put your finger on. I think that's why the difference with europe is so stark. You go visit, and you'll be in the center of some beautiful car free wonderland, and there's kids just hanging around and playing, and sharing that space with everybody else. In the usa, kids only roam free in secluded pockets, far away from the "real" city. And, conversely, they're the only ones out too, maybe some seniors doing their post linner dog walk.

Sad stuff, the collapse of the public realm. Compound living is the only thing we can manage still.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#196

Post by wnc3141 »

bedobi wrote: post #29

The design of the physical environment is in no small part responsible for this. Don't believe me go to Europe and Japan where kids are still allowed to walk and bike to school, to friends places and just in general play and exist outside unattended to a much higher degree than in the US. Because in the US they would be roadkill, and even if they somehow survived outside of a car, car centric design means there's now…

I was just noticing, on separate occasions today kids walking on the side (no shoulder) of a two lane road (often driven too fast) because there are no continuous sidewalks or cohesion of the street network between housing developments.

(context: suburban CO)

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#197

Post by trgn »

overstay8930 wrote: post #92
swayvil wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "lol" really appropriate in this context? Theses days it seems more like a nervous tic.

because its a laughable suggestion to pretend Europe doesn’t have the same problems as the US

but they don't though. kids are so much more independently mobile than here, is that really not the case? I mean, you can literally just see it, you'll be on the bus to your tourist thing or whatever, and some 10 year old is riding with you to school, his laughably overstuffed backpack on his knees.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#198

Post by pezezin »

Dalewyn wrote: post #193
pezezin wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Aomori, I have been commuting every single day for the last 6 years, and I totally agree with you. There are three more points that make me mad: - Stopping in the middle of the road whenever they feel like it. Just turn on the blinkers and boom, the road became a parking slot! And they don't care if it is a straight segment or the middle of a curve. - Overtaking other cars on the left at an intersection. I…

>Just turn on the blinkers and boom, the road became a parking slot! Taxis and occasionally even limousine buses are notoriously guilty of this...

They are. Heck, one time I even saw a truck driver just taking a nap! Like, he decided to stop in the middle of the road and sleep!

Sure, better than falling asleep and crashing, but come on, all the konbinis around here have parking slots big enough for trucks.

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#199

Post by jjav »

ThalesX wrote: post #153
crooked-v wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My particular bugbear here is the absolutely insanity of truck and SUV heights, to the point that even full-grown adults are no longer clearly visible from inside new vehicles ( https://i.imgur.com/1dHWVxn.png ).

I'm in Eastern Europe; I've only seen an "American-style" SUV once I think two decades ago. I still can't get that image out of my mind. It was like a tank in front of my car. I couldn't understand how it fits our streets, how it parks, I couldn't see around it. Just... wow, honestly. I have no idea what car it was, but it was like a huge pick-up.

> I've only seen an "American-style" SUV once I think two decades ago.

If it was ~20 years ago it wasn't even that big compared to today!

Re: Deterioration of local community a major driver of loss of play-based childhood

#200

Post by vidarh »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #143
alfalfasprout wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're also putting Europe on a pedestal. In many urban areas (where the majority of the population lives) it's no longer safe for kids to walk + bike to school freely. Not necessarily because of cars but significant crime.

> Not necessarily because of cars but significant crime. I love these HN comments -- so incredibly vague. Can you be more specific about which cities? I find it hard to believe. Crime has fallen like a stone in the last 30 years in highly developed countries and their biggest cities.

There is however an impression in fairly substantial parts of society that it's gotten worse, and that impression might well have a greater effect than the actual rate on some people's behaviours.
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