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Why are debut novels failing to launch?

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Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#71

Post by inanutshellus »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #69
barbariangrunge wrote: post #67

Discoverability sucks, for almost everyone, but especially for new authors. And that was before ai started flooding out “content.” Even if you get a publisher, great authors sometimes sell only a handful of copies. You find amazing books on goodreads by award winning authors with only 5 reviews. And that’s people who can get their novels manuscript even looked at by an editor. Lots of self published authors end up wi…

This is why you see these massive advances for known names. The only thing publishers seem to know is that authors who create their own publicity sell copies, and those that dont have an audience dont.

"Step one: hype the human, step two: publish their books" reminds me of being a senior in college and seeing and despairing at job postings saying

"MUST have 5 years experience in [tech that came out 9 months ago]"

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#72

Post by lachaux »

BarryMilo wrote: post #53

I'm currently starting a publishing company in a niche Canadian market. What people in these comments (and really, most places on the internet) fail to grasp is the role of the publisher as a curator and editor. Unlike your friends, the editor is not your friend. They don't have a stake in your ego, they won't sugarcoat it beyond the veneer of professionalism. You need an editor who is not your friend, too say no to…

> Unlike your friends, the editor is not your friend.

It is true. I would like to qualify it by saying "At the beginning, the editor is not your friend." A friendship, even very strong one, can be developed along the time, based on mutual respect and appreciation, temperament match, etc. Even then, a good editor will still be professional and be honest when they edit the writer's draft.

A good book may not be a "successful" book, especially in literary fiction, since the post talks about novels. The reverse can be true as well. It happens often that the editor tells the author it is a good book, and the publisher allocates resources to marketing it, schedules book tours, etc. while at the same time both the writer's agent and the editor/publisher expect the book may sell only ~2,000 copies. The target audience are expected to be other writers, a subset of avid literature readers, etc. They don't expect it will earn back the advance paid to the author. The publishers have portfolios and long term visions. Of course, this doesn't apply to small publishers, most of which cannot afford it.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#73

Post by stubish »

motohagiography wrote: post #63

Write something someone wants. Literary fiction was art that discovered and expressed the essential, where cultural production today explicitly militates against anything that could be percived as essential(-ist). New novels are failing because the culture has no eros. Readers have become too socially poor to risk investing in ideas that could compromise their cultivated homogeny, and it's just too hard to care with…

I'd wager most books are content someone wants. A lot are even content a lot of people want. This is not good enough. Reaching the audience is the problem.

Also, writing a book can take years. Writing for what people want today is how you fail, as people will have moved on in the five years it took to write, edit, sell and produce the work. If you can reliably predict market desires in 5 years time, you have a lot more than a best selling novel on your hands.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#74

Post by ngcc_hk »

Whilst reality bite and all said is the truth, there are odds. How about on a lady with kids on social welfare and had no name tried to publish a book about young witch growing up in a boarding school. And tbh I do not recommend her book for young kids, as it is very dark.

Anyway, as said in another epic, there is always hope.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#75

Post by lachaux »

jonahbenton wrote: post #2

My long retired parents met and worked in publishing. The continued deterioration of the industry is a source of deep sadness for them. I personally however recently found my own ray of hope. By chance I started reading something I really liked, found it was published by a tiny house that has a subscription plan- which is different from an aggregator having a book of the month kind of thing- and publishes super niche…

I am very glad that you find your own ray of hope. I understand the sadness that you parents feel. I know some people in publishing. The industry was in an mode of existential crisis when Amazon Publishing was launched. It then went through social media, Goodreads, etc. It seems the industry survives, although the future is still murky.

The industry indeed needs J. K. Rowling, Sally Rooney, Colleen Hoover, celebrity biographies & memoirs etc. to survive. Good books will find their way to be published, and get discovered, maybe dozens of years later. I happened to read a novel by an English author published ~100 years ago. It is a good book, IMO. The publishing house had only one person. The entire office was one room in his apartment.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#76

Post by bane »

WalterBright wrote: post #58
bane wrote: post #55

Many many years ago a friend did a stint at a major publishing house. Whenever she'd show up to parties she would bring in a small stack of unpublished manuscripts, we'd all get into the wine or beer or whatever and start reading particularly terrible passages to each other. Had she sought out especially bad manuscripts? No! She just grabbed whatever was on the "will read, maybe, someday" shelf in the editor's work a…

> The "secondary" film and TV markets are so starved for good new ideas There's a long list of very good scifi that has never been made into a movie. Instead, we get the Mandalorean which rehashes every spaghetti western trope. The character even sounds like Clint Eastwood. It has the hero breaking in the horse while the old ranch hand leans on the corral fence, for example. And training the village to defend itself…

I wish I could describe the near physical pain I feel that "Rendezvous with Rama" isn't yet a great Denise Villeneuve movie, and the "Night's Dawn Trilogy" isn't yet a multi-season series on Apple TV.

The list goes on.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#77

Post by beej71 »

pavlov wrote: post #8
boznz wrote: post #4

Spent several years writing and editing my first book before thinking the job was finished when I hit the publish now button. But it is literally only half the job done. The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever. Oh and did I say that there are thousands of books a day released and there is nowhere y…

Ten years ago I wrote a science fiction novel in Finnish, printed 300 hardcover copies at my own expense, and gave them away to people over the years. I would guess less than 10% of those copies have actually been read. (A few people claim they liked it, but of course that doesn't necessarily mean they read it.) So, a waste of time and money? That's not how I feel about it at all. The creative process was illuminatin…

> A few people claim they liked it, but of course that doesn't necessarily mean they read it.

Reminds me of that Groucho Marx quote: "From the moment I picked up your book until I put it down, I was convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it." :)

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#78

Post by corimaith »

TillE wrote: post #64
bane wrote: post #55

Many many years ago a friend did a stint at a major publishing house. Whenever she'd show up to parties she would bring in a small stack of unpublished manuscripts, we'd all get into the wine or beer or whatever and start reading particularly terrible passages to each other. Had she sought out especially bad manuscripts? No! She just grabbed whatever was on the "will read, maybe, someday" shelf in the editor's work a…

Aside from Andy Weir (who got picked up by a publisher and properly edited), the self-published books I've read have been remarkably awful, including some stuff that was widely recommended. The fundamental truth of creative work is that if you make something genuinely great, you'll probably have a smooth path to success. I see a lot of anxiety among indie game developers about the sheer quantity of games being releas…

Indie games are interesting because you'd think given the nature of their development they'd do more interesting things, but stunningly they've mostly stayed within a few codified genres (roguelike/ deckbuilder/platformer galore). There aren't many successors to the giants of the old like Terrarria or Dwarf Fortress.

I'd have to chalk it up to a lack of vision (I don't genuinely believe someone grows up wanting to make a roguelike deckbuilder), but then that begs the question of why are they in game dev in the first place.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#79

Post by BarryMilo »

lachaux wrote: post #72
BarryMilo wrote: post #53

I'm currently starting a publishing company in a niche Canadian market. What people in these comments (and really, most places on the internet) fail to grasp is the role of the publisher as a curator and editor. Unlike your friends, the editor is not your friend. They don't have a stake in your ego, they won't sugarcoat it beyond the veneer of professionalism. You need an editor who is not your friend, too say no to…

> Unlike your friends, the editor is not your friend. It is true. I would like to qualify it by saying "At the beginning, the editor is not your friend." A friendship, even very strong one, can be developed along the time, based on mutual respect and appreciation, temperament match, etc. Even then, a good editor will still be professional and be honest when they edit the writer's draft. A good book may not be a "succ…

Good points all around!

It's funny because I expect most of us do it for the art, but artistic merit doesn't pay the rent. This is why many smaller publishers have "locomotives" that are guaranteed to sell so they can publish "good" literature books that won't sell. Don't know about the big American ones, seeing as they're flooding the market I assume they're just playing a numbers game, let God sort them out...

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#80

Post by idontknowtech »

japhib wrote: post #7

Seems like almost every creative industry (music, video games, art, writing) is having the same issue: Creation & publication tools are getting cheaper & easier to use, which means a lot more people can publish their creative ideas. With such a huge number of choices, discovery is now the issue. IMO discovery of what is truly high quality is still an unsolved problem. Seems like recommendation systems generally just…

Great point. Editors are filters for what the general public sees. The analog here is probably BookTok or whatever the social media version of book influencers is. They similarly can be expected to promote what they like, or eventually lose authenticity and viewership. Or just start including cartoon sounds into every video.
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