Why are debut novels failing to launch? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#61

Post by all2 » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 2:06 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #59

johnea wrote: post #25

Even though I still retain an entire bookcase of novels (mostly sci fi) from my youth, I now find fiction to be, well... boring. Personally I'd rather read about something that actually exists...

I know what you mean. I have turned to reading history books, that are far more interesting stories.

Hello, my friend. I enjoyed 1491, and I've been working my way through The Secret Life of Real Estate and Banking which is an economic analysis of the boom/bust cycle as it exists in modern fiat/debt based economies. Both are very different, but also very engaging and interesting.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#62

Post by vundercind » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 2:18 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #58

bane wrote: post #55

Many many years ago a friend did a stint at a major publishing house. Whenever she'd show up to parties she would bring in a small stack of unpublished manuscripts, we'd all get into the wine or beer or whatever and start reading particularly terrible passages to each other. Had she sought out especially bad manuscripts? No! She just grabbed whatever was on the "will read, maybe, someday" shelf in the editor's work a…

> The "secondary" film and TV markets are so starved for good new ideas There's a long list of very good scifi that has never been made into a movie. Instead, we get the Mandalorean which rehashes every spaghetti western trope. The character even sounds like Clint Eastwood. It has the hero breaking in the horse while the old ranch hand leans on the corral fence, for example. And training the village to defend itself…

In the specific case of Star Wars, that’s exactly how you make something decent within the Star Wars framework: pick a few elements, including characters, plots, shots, scenes, lines, whatever, from a broad set of genre media, mash them together, and apply Star Wars lipstick. The first film basically defined the genre pastiche film, and it’s still the straightest path to making something Ok within Star Wars. Most failures (and there are so many) are creatives failing to appreciate this, or not leaning into it hard enough.

Mandalorean has one episode that’s about 50% The Wages of Fear and I bet the other main element of accidentally finding some officer you’d really like to get revenge on but while in the middle of committing another crime is also from something else, but I’m not sure what. The AT-ST episode is basically a Conan the Barbarian story plus any of a few westerns (the training-the-town-folk thing—even the woman who’s an uncannily good shot for no reason ever explained is lifted from westerns). That show got how to do Star Wars.

More broadly, yes, more original (at least, not based on an existing visual-media franchise) sci fi movies would be cool to see.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#63

Post by motohagiography » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 2:30 AM UTC

Write something someone wants. Literary fiction was art that discovered and expressed the essential, where cultural production today explicitly militates against anything that could be percived as essential(-ist). New novels are failing because the culture has no eros.

Readers have become too socially poor to risk investing in ideas that could compromise their cultivated homogeny, and it's just too hard to care with any sincerity what someone brand safe for public radio writes about. I guess I'm saying novels would sell better if the people selling and publishing them produced something people actually wanted instead of churning out what they are being told by their granting agencies is good for their readers.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#64

Post by TillE » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 2:32 AM UTC

bane wrote: post #55

Many many years ago a friend did a stint at a major publishing house. Whenever she'd show up to parties she would bring in a small stack of unpublished manuscripts, we'd all get into the wine or beer or whatever and start reading particularly terrible passages to each other. Had she sought out especially bad manuscripts? No! She just grabbed whatever was on the "will read, maybe, someday" shelf in the editor's work a…

Aside from Andy Weir (who got picked up by a publisher and properly edited), the self-published books I've read have been remarkably awful, including some stuff that was widely recommended.

The fundamental truth of creative work is that if you make something genuinely great, you'll probably have a smooth path to success. I see a lot of anxiety among indie game developers about the sheer quantity of games being released, and yes bluntly, if you make a merely average game nobody will care. Make something great.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#65

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 2:37 AM UTC

all2 wrote: post #61

WalterBright wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know what you mean. I have turned to reading history books, that are far more interesting stories.

Hello, my friend. I enjoyed 1491, and I've been working my way through The Secret Life of Real Estate and Banking which is an economic analysis of the boom/bust cycle as it exists in modern fiat/debt based economies. Both are very different, but also very engaging and interesting.

I'm currently reading "The Making of the Atomic Bomb". It's the best scifi I've ever read, except it's true!

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#66

Post by Animats » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 2:42 AM UTC

Because Barnes and Noble has 14 checkout shelf positions devoted to Taylor Swift magazines. James Patterson (Enterprises) has about a quarter of the new novel space, and Tom Clancy (RIP) has maybe a tenth. It's all about the brand.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#67

Post by barbariangrunge » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 2:50 AM UTC

Discoverability sucks, for almost everyone, but especially for new authors. And that was before ai started flooding out “content.”

Even if you get a publisher, great authors sometimes sell only a handful of copies. You find amazing books on goodreads by award winning authors with only 5 reviews. And that’s people who can get their novels manuscript even looked at by an editor. Lots of self published authors end up with 0-1 reviews

How do you stand out in that swamp?

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#68

Post by thfuran » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 2:50 AM UTC

pfdietz wrote: post #29

johnea wrote: post #25

Even though I still retain an entire bookcase of novels (mostly sci fi) from my youth, I now find fiction to be, well... boring. Personally I'd rather read about something that actually exists...

How do you feel about history?

There's hardly anything new there.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#69

Post by HDThoreaun » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 2:52 AM UTC

barbariangrunge wrote: post #67

Discoverability sucks, for almost everyone, but especially for new authors. And that was before ai started flooding out “content.” Even if you get a publisher, great authors sometimes sell only a handful of copies. You find amazing books on goodreads by award winning authors with only 5 reviews. And that’s people who can get their novels manuscript even looked at by an editor. Lots of self published authors end up wi…

This is why you see these massive advances for known names. The only thing publishers seem to know is that authors who create their own publicity sell copies, and those that dont have an audience dont.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#70

Post by adamc » Sat, Jun 08, 2024, 2:57 AM UTC

motohagiography wrote: post #63

Write something someone wants. Literary fiction was art that discovered and expressed the essential, where cultural production today explicitly militates against anything that could be percived as essential(-ist). New novels are failing because the culture has no eros. Readers have become too socially poor to risk investing in ideas that could compromise their cultivated homogeny, and it's just too hard to care with…

There are lots and lots of well-written, relatively obscure books. I don't think that has much to do with being "brand safe". It has to do with discoverability, network effects (people are more motivated to read books people they know have liked), and the vast number of books.