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Why are debut novels failing to launch?

esquire.com

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Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#52
I used the public library to get a lot of books that I'd never want to waste my money on. You can call it "market research."

Verdict: there just isn't a market for serious fiction like there was 70 years ago, say. J.D. Salinger considered himself a failure until he finally got a story in The New Yorker. How many writers dream of that nowadays?

Then there's Esquire, of course : https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/376430.Esquire_s_Big_Boo...

The urges that led people to read fiction then are now directed to TV, movies, and serials. We could decry it, but that's how it is.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#53
I'm currently starting a publishing company in a niche Canadian market.

What people in these comments (and really, most places on the internet) fail to grasp is the role of the publisher as a curator and editor.

Unlike your friends, the editor is not your friend. They don't have a stake in your ego, they won't sugarcoat it beyond the veneer of professionalism. You need an editor who is not your friend, too say no to you. No, you shouldn't start your book with this cliché. No, you shouldn't have your character meandering aimlessly. No, you shouldn't use whedonisms. Exceptions apply, of course, but when the editor is your publisher and not your friend, "shouldn't" becomes "can't". Usually that involves saying no to 99% of manuscripts coming through the door. And this is how an okay story becomes a great book. Your editor, having read more books than you in their segment, knows the difference... usually.

All manuscripts are at least a little bit bad, some books aren't. As you can tell, I'm no fan of self-publishing, I just don't believe anyone can be objective enough with their own baby.

Now... I've read my fair share of bad books, especially recently. The publisher/editor is to blame 95% of the time. My theory is that being rigorous takes time, which is always in short supply, and skill. I believe people tend not to stay in the same role for too long anymore, lest they lose out financially. Which is totally fair, but skill (and the chutzpah to say "no") takes a while to develop, years really. And no one has "years" for anything.

Except, of course, all the people in the industry who don't mind being poor. And people making bank, I suppose, but these are so few as to be statistically insignificant.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#54
post #8
post #4

Spent several years writing and editing my first book before thinking the job was finished when I hit the publish now button. But it is literally only half the job done. The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever. Oh and did I say that there are thousands of books a day released and there is nowhere y…

Ten years ago I wrote a science fiction novel in Finnish, printed 300 hardcover copies at my own expense, and gave them away to people over the years. I would guess less than 10% of those copies have actually been read. (A few people claim they liked it, but of course that doesn't necessarily mean they read it.) So, a waste of time and money? That's not how I feel about it at all. The creative process was illuminatin…

Exactly. Don't expect anyone to read what you wrote, much less commercial success, unless you were a Harvard undergrad English prodigy who joined Penguin publishing, or somehow wiggled into the circle of [City] Review of [Each Others'] Books. It's a one-way, time-traveling message in a bottle comprised of dead trees. Doing it for art is a wolf's howl that it lived and that it could.

Although, it's gradually shifted into over-reliance on the linkrot of spinning rust, floating electrons, and burning transistors such that used and new bookstores and libraries are endangered species. Perhaps another cycle similar to the early medieval period maybe gradually happening as today's "Romes" decline in slow-motion, accelerated by climate change decline unless and until we save ourselves through economic and ecological limits.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#55
Many many years ago a friend did a stint at a major publishing house. Whenever she'd show up to parties she would bring in a small stack of unpublished manuscripts, we'd all get into the wine or beer or whatever and start reading particularly terrible passages to each other. Had she sought out especially bad manuscripts? No! She just grabbed whatever was on the "will read, maybe, someday" shelf in the editor's work area.

I learned about Sturgeon's Law (90% of everything is crap) during these events. Most people think what they've written is interesting, or unique, or worth publishing. However, publishers have to make money, so they curate very carefully, edit the hell out of the raw manuscripts, and then only actually commit to publishing what they think there's a market for. Nearly zero of the random manuscripts that are sent in by unknown authors ever make it into this funnel, and the honest reason why, at least from what I have personally read, was because most of it was completely terrible -- in as many ways as you can think of terrible to be.

Three other thoughts:

1. The great videogame crash of '83 happened because the dominant platforms at the time did not have a lockdown on curation, so anybody and everybody flooded the market with garbage. Consumers decided it was better to not buy anything than to chance spending the equivalent of nearly $200 in 2024 money and get trash.

2. A few breakout, self-published, authors are making it through the piles of junk, but they are few and far between. Andy Weir (the Martian) and Hugh Howey (Silo) come to mind. The "secondary" film and TV markets are so starved for good new ideas that their works are getting converted into non-print media almost as fast as they can get sets built and costumes sewed.

3. There's probably a new market for solid, well known, curators. People who make money sifting the dreck to find the Weirs and Howeys and surfacing the cream to the top. The creators are self-publishing, and the publishing houses aren't doing well these days. But the curation function is still wildly important and finding the right way to do it, and the business model around it, is perhaps the future.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#56
post #4

Spent several years writing and editing my first book before thinking the job was finished when I hit the publish now button. But it is literally only half the job done. The hell now is unless you get friends and family or an agency involved to push it and market it it will languish on the 500th page of any Amazon search forever. Oh and did I say that there are thousands of books a day released and there is nowhere y…

I don't understand why Hacker News and Reddit block self promotion. "Hey, look at a thing I made!" is a lot more interesting than a lot of the other drivel that gets posted.

In theory, they limit self promotion so that people actually participate in the community, and don't just use it as a link dump. The ideal is that people discuss other topics more often, and share their own work only every so often.

A lot of forums and chat servers have similar rules for the same reason.

Unfortunately, this doesn't work very well on Reddit, since the smarter advertisers and astro turfers have figured out how to manipulate the system well enough that people don't suspect they're advertising.

Add this to how certain types of low effort content get a ton of upvotes anyway, and how popular creators don't need to care since their fans will promote them anyway, and well, the end result is less "participate in the community" and more "don't be unpopular or bad at pretending to be someone else"

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#57
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HN and reddit will also immediately block self-promotion even if relevant to the audience ( HN doesn't block self promotion if it comes up as part of a conversation, e.g. "I'm having this technical problem." Re: "I wrote a book about how to solve that!" Also you can at least put a link in your profile! Reddit has tons of self promos all the time, it just depends on the subreddit. Also it helps if you're a long time…

HN doesn't block self promotion in stories either. There's a whole section for it, "Show HN".

My comment was because my last three submissions were blocked. I emailed the moderator the first time it happened, and he said the algorithm probably thought it was self-promotion as I cross posted it to medium.com which I now know everybody hates. By blocked, I mean the articles showed as normal on my browser but was hidden to anybody else. I did not use the "Show HN" option because I have had articles submitted in the past from my website without this issue.

I am not a prolific poster, maybe 2 or 3 a year, and appreciate HN efforts to keep the spam out, so I will give it another shot on my next original article using the "Show HN" option.

Ironically my last submission that was rejected was exactly about this https://rodyne.com/?p=1400

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#58
post #55

Many many years ago a friend did a stint at a major publishing house. Whenever she'd show up to parties she would bring in a small stack of unpublished manuscripts, we'd all get into the wine or beer or whatever and start reading particularly terrible passages to each other. Had she sought out especially bad manuscripts? No! She just grabbed whatever was on the "will read, maybe, someday" shelf in the editor's work a…

> The "secondary" film and TV markets are so starved for good new ideas

There's a long list of very good scifi that has never been made into a movie.

Instead, we get the Mandalorean which rehashes every spaghetti western trope. The character even sounds like Clint Eastwood. It has the hero breaking in the horse while the old ranch hand leans on the corral fence, for example. And training the village to defend itself from the bandits. And so on.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#59
post #25

Even though I still retain an entire bookcase of novels (mostly sci fi) from my youth, I now find fiction to be, well... boring. Personally I'd rather read about something that actually exists...

I know what you mean. I have turned to reading history books, that are far more interesting stories.

Re: Why are debut novels failing to launch?

#60
post #25

Even though I still retain an entire bookcase of novels (mostly sci fi) from my youth, I now find fiction to be, well... boring. Personally I'd rather read about something that actually exists...

I'm very much in the same boat. Fiction books haven't gripped me in nearly a decade. History, on the other hand, has become more and more interesting to me as I've aged.
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