Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem • Hacker News Board

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#511

Post by diggan » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 5:26 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #475

diggan wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth looking up the difference between trespassing on property someone actively lives in, and "okupas" occupying otherwise empty buildings. Once you understand the difference, you'd understand that you can continue living your life like normal :)

I don't see the difference. How many hours or days can one be away. 1 hour, 1 day, 1 year?

I don't think there is a clear "N amount of days away from the residence means you're not actively living there", the court would look at many factors.

For example, if it's evident the owner is intending to return, there is personal belongings, utility contracts in the owners name and such, courts would (probably) consider it your primary residence even if you take an extended leave from it.

On the other hand, if you're away for several months, there is no clear intent to return and you've removed all furniture/personal belongings, courts can think it looks like it isn't your primary residence anymore, especially if you own other properties that it seems you might be living in instead.

Like most issues in society, there isn't any clear dividing line and no guarantees. That's why we have the legal system we have after all, so nuances can be taking into consideration.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#512

Post by TotalCrackpot » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 5:26 PM UTC

rudnevr wrote: post #410

TotalCrackpot wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the worst you could say about anarchists is that they smoke weed? That's somewhat funny, please consider that for anarchists implementing their property norm of usufruct is a part of the social revolution through direct action, it's not really meant to me nice to the "middle class" because anarchists are revolutionaries who want to abolish the class society :)

I was actually kind:) Bad hygiene, unpaid debts, delinquency, women and child abuse, antisemitism can easily be added to the picture.

Most anarchists are feminists and they are against anti-semitism. Historically a few theoreticians were anti-Semites, but most were not. You seem to just be dehumanizing other people who have different views than you, which is disgusting and not something you should be proud of.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#513

Post by zrn900 » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 5:27 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #385

zrn900 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Yeah, it would be shocking to those who are used to the godly rights of the property owners on their property like in the US. The story you’re replying to happened in the United States. There was nothing noble about it. The squatters stole someone’s house and prevented them from occupying it. This wasn’t noble squatters versus evil landlords leaving houses empty. My friend literally bought a house for his family an…

> The story you’re replying to happened in the United States.

I haven't seen any indicator of that at the time. Your comment does not mention anything in it about the US. Everyone is reading as if it happened in Spain. I don't even know whether occupying is possible in the US, bar a few specific states in certain conditions.

Regardless, it could have happened in Spain, and this is a topic related to Spain, my earlier comment still serves to make a statement in relation to the actual topic at hand.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#514

Post by TotalCrackpot » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 5:29 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #498

TotalCrackpot wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not conditional of somebody else's forced labor, why do you think that?

Everyone is entitled to free shelter, but nobody is required to build them? Where do you think the free shelter is going to come from? Because, looking around, I don't see very many free shelters, so they're going to have to come from somewhere. And if your answer is to take all the existing houses and give them, one to each family that needs a place to stay, that's great in the short term. In the long term, though,…

At worst everyone should have an access to piece of land where they can build a shelter for themselves, or live in a yurt or an RV if they don't want to build the typical housing.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#515

Post by alfredgg » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 5:29 PM UTC

anthk wrote: post #61

Idealista arguing on the ethics of squatting it's like Exxon fighting against pollution or Trump talking against bribery. I've seen war trenches which seemed more liveable than the average racoon hole rented at Idealista.

Amen!

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#516

Post by nephanth » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 5:30 PM UTC

victorbjorklund wrote: post #443

juststartguide wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common misconception that people don't seem to get (and that most news outlets conveniently forget to report), it's that if someone enters your primary or even second residence, that isn't considered Okupacion, it's considered "Allanamiento de morada" (breaking and entering). Even if you were on vacation for a month. If that happens you call the police and they'll kick them out in 24 hours max.

So it only applies to your third house? Seems a bit strange.

Secondary residence here doesn't mean your 2nd house as opposed to the 3rd, it means a vacation home (ie a place you own for your own use, even if it's not you main residence. As opposed to a rental property)

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#517

Post by TotalCrackpot » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 5:31 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #499

TotalCrackpot wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crucial to understand that if we let a person that build a shelter keep it for eternity then that person can build many shelters such that there will be no land left for other people to build their shelters on.

Indeed. This is why in a society free from theft, one must build or make something for exchange to get things you want. I don't see why buying two plots and building two houses entitles someone else to one of them.

I don't agree with the notion of buying a plot. No one should ever have to pay for an empty plot of land.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#518

Post by timonoko » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 5:33 PM UTC

Comical. I used to hang around Spain in wintertime in 80's, mostly living in tent, albeit I could afford a month in a pensionnat when I found a good one. People were friendly and sometimes suggested better camping place within their property. European Union and unhindered migration from every direction turned the country into total shithole.

Downvote all you want :-)

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#519

Post by atlantic » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 5:34 PM UTC

diggan wrote: post #412

tiborsaas wrote: post #351

A friend of mine acquired an investment property in Spain and after a while okupas moved in, lock changed etc. A woman with two children. They were clearly helped with an organized team to get into that place. The sad resolution after lots of headache and thinking was to pay the invaders the 5000EUR they demanded to move out. There was some followup information about what happened after this. She was picked up by a c…

On the other hand of issues like this, is the people forced to move away from their neighborhoods because outsiders keep acquiring "investment properties" and price out the current tenants. We're finally getting more protections from this, but there been a lot of hurt because of this already. Entire neighborhoods in Barcelona (like Barceloneta) had generational families being forced away because of issues like this.…

That's true. The buyers of real estate on a large scale are often transnational investment funds. And they sometimes sit on empty properties for decades, waiting for them to accrue value. Some kind of regulation is certainly required. Or higher taxation of second homes. But squatting contributes nothing to solving this problem. It just promotes anarchy.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#520

Post by diggan » Thu, Jun 06, 2024, 5:34 PM UTC

miguelxt wrote: post #497

chous wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. It's a non-existing problem that the media insists us to convince otherwise, just to force us to pay for useless and absurdly expensive monthly services. Poor people being afraid of other poor people, a classic.

It may be overblown by media, sure, let's say we agree on that, but I know of at least 3 cases of very close people that have suffered the issue in the last 3 years alone. It may be my social bubble, but I don't think it's a completely fabricated matter.

> It may be overblown by media, sure, let's say we agree on that, but I know of at least 3 cases of very close people that have suffered the issue in the last 3 years alone.

For curiosity's sake, were the affected people owners of multiple properties or was this issue considering their primary residential homes that they were actively living in?