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Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

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Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#381

Post by zrn900 »

Aurornis wrote: post #358
rudnevr wrote: post #264

I live in Spain and own property in Spain. There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. It's not a small problem, there's like 12K cases per year last time I checked. Eve…

> There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. I had a friend who bought a house that needed a lot of work. Before he could get started on the remodel, someone broke in t…

[flagged]

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#382

Post by s1artibartfast »

foldr wrote: post #310
solids wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Squatting is a problem, period. Doesn’t matter if the house is empty or not.

I don't agree with squatting on the whole, but this distinction clearly does matter. If someone squats a property that you were planning to rent out then you lose the income that you could have gained thereby. That's not nearly as bad as losing access to the home you currently live in.

It can be worse, as you are losing rental income, which can have larger impacts on your budget and life.

I have family in California that had to deal with squatters on a rental property. It cost them ~400k, which included their kids college funds and retirement.

Costs were 3 years of lost rent while they paid the mortgage 250k damages done by the squatters, plus legal fees.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#383

Post by zrn900 »

rudnevr wrote: post #264

I live in Spain and own property in Spain. There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. It's not a small problem, there's like 12K cases per year last time I checked. Eve…

> There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can.

Both of those groups serve the purpose of forcing the real estate owners to actually use their real estate instead of letting them rot to benefit from value appreciation like in the US - one of the main reasons of the housing crisis in the US.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homes-for-sale-affordable-housi...

So yes, they actually do serve a robin-hood purpose.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#384

Post by zrn900 »

Its not Spain's problem. Its the real estate sector's problem. Both the legitimate okupas and illegitimate 'professional' okupas do serve the purpose of forcing the real estate owners to actually USE their real estate instead of being able to let them sit empty. They either live in them, sell them or rent them - which helps to address the housing demand.

Compare this to the US where such a phenomenon does not exist:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homes-for-sale-affordable-housi...

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#385

Post by Aurornis »

zrn900 wrote: post #381
Aurornis wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. I had a friend who bought a house that needed a lot of work. Before he could get started on the remodel, someone broke in t…

[flagged]

> Yeah, it would be shocking to those who are used to the godly rights of the property owners on their property like in the US.

The story you’re replying to happened in the United States.

There was nothing noble about it. The squatters stole someone’s house and prevented them from occupying it. This wasn’t noble squatters versus evil landlords leaving houses empty. My friend literally bought a house for his family and someone squatted in it before he could move in.

Amazing that such a comment would come along and prove the point I was making: Some people can look an obvious injustice dead on, ignore the details, inject their own imagined narrative with victim and perpetrator reversed, and claim moral superiority for the perpetrator.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#386

Post by Aurornis »

zrn900 wrote: post #383
rudnevr wrote: post #264

I live in Spain and own property in Spain. There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. It's not a small problem, there's like 12K cases per year last time I checked. Eve…

> There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. Both of those groups serve the purpose of forcing the real estate owners to actually use their real estate instead of letti…

> real estate owners to actually use their real estate instead of letting them rot to benefit from value appreciation

This is such an obviously false premise that I don’t understand how you even arrived at it.

Real estate is expensive to maintain. You don’t let real estate appreciate in value by letting it “rot”.

If you think the US housing crisis is due to investors letting houses “rot” then you clearly don’t understand the situation at all.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#387

Post by betaby »

zrn900 wrote: post #384

Its not Spain's problem. Its the real estate sector's problem. Both the legitimate okupas and illegitimate 'professional' okupas do serve the purpose of forcing the real estate owners to actually USE their real estate instead of being able to let them sit empty. They either live in them, sell them or rent them - which helps to address the housing demand. Compare this to the US where such a phenomenon does not exist:…

> Both the legitimate okupas and illegitimate 'professional' okupas do serve the purpose of forcing the real estate owners to actually USE their real estate instead of being able to let them sit empty.

Total nonsense, Spanish new recently reported the case when couple went for 3 months trip only to find their apartment squatted. Spain has no property rights for smaller folks.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#388

Post by pas »

hnbad wrote: post #244
pas wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even making it a proper market would help! The problem is that people in general are very averse to changes, and cities are stuck in a very bad policy pit. (Building is hard, but even when finally a project is greenlit it barely moves the needle, adding supply is not happening fast enough because there's this fear of high buildings. And, on the other hand, there's no quota or lottery for moving, which means prices go…

I don't see how the housing market could ever be less exploitative than the healthcare market given that you literally need a place to live the same way you need to not die and that there's more money in building extremely expensive housing and hoping it sells than building affordable housing and just about breaking even.

housing is much more transparent, people shop around, there are sites to check prices, there are short term solutions, people can spend a few nights at friends and family.

for most of the US healthcare comes from their employers, which is the direct opposite of an efficient market. getting claims validated and actually getting reimbursed or getting treatment is the problem, and the abysmal quality is ... because there's no incentives to have it better, lack of competition and/or oversight (because lack of funding for authorities, no real consequences for providers if they miss deadlines, etc)

. .

the big problem is that currently affordable housing is fucking expensive too, because of small volume.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#389

Post by TotalCrackpot »

rudnevr wrote: post #264

I live in Spain and own property in Spain. There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. It's not a small problem, there's like 12K cases per year last time I checked. Eve…

Is the worst you could say about anarchists is that they smoke weed? That's somewhat funny, please consider that for anarchists implementing their property norm of usufruct is a part of the social revolution through direct action, it's not really meant to me nice to the "middle class" because anarchists are revolutionaries who want to abolish the class society :)

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#390

Post by diggan »

betaby wrote: post #387
zrn900 wrote: post #384

Its not Spain's problem. Its the real estate sector's problem. Both the legitimate okupas and illegitimate 'professional' okupas do serve the purpose of forcing the real estate owners to actually USE their real estate instead of being able to let them sit empty. They either live in them, sell them or rent them - which helps to address the housing demand. Compare this to the US where such a phenomenon does not exist:…

> Both the legitimate okupas and illegitimate 'professional' okupas do serve the purpose of forcing the real estate owners to actually USE their real estate instead of being able to let them sit empty. Total nonsense, Spanish new recently reported the case when couple went for 3 months trip only to find their apartment squatted. Spain has no property rights for smaller folks.

That's anecdotal though... How many of the current okupas happen in other's primary residence? Would be considered trespassing in those cases and a lot easier to get rid of them, compared to the other cases.
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