Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, it’s not. Living where you want, for free, is not a right.
Having a free shelter is fundamental to a person's freedom, arguing otherwise is immoral.
And who has to build that shelter, and what about their freedom?
Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
411–420 of 930 posts
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#412A friend of mine acquired an investment property in Spain and after a while okupas moved in, lock changed etc. A woman with two children. They were clearly helped with an organized team to get into that place. The sad resolution after lots of headache and thinking was to pay the invaders the 5000EUR they demanded to move out. There was some followup information about what happened after this. She was picked up by a c…
On the other hand of issues like this, is the people forced to move away from their neighborhoods because outsiders keep acquiring "investment properties" and price out the current tenants. We're finally getting more protections from this, but there been a lot of hurt because of this already. Entire neighborhoods in Barcelona (like Barceloneta) had generational families being forced away because of issues like this.
So on hand, it sucks for your wealthy friend that their investment only made X% amount instead of XX% amount. But on the other hand, I feel for the people who are being forced away from their home as well, because there still isn't enough protections for the people who actually live and work here.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#413Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That is to say: it is a problem (the 500 - 1000 cases per year nationwide of occupation of people's homes is clearly problematic) but it's not a really widespread problem for most middle-class people (the vast majority of people even in the middle classes do not own totally unused property). I don’t understand the point of trying to downplay or diminish this problem. Is dividing the victims along arbitrary class li…
> Is dividing the victims along arbitrary class lines and arguing that most victims are not “middle class” supposed to make it better? That was in reply to the parent comment, arguing this is a serious problem primarily for the "not-so-rich middle class" that is being ignored because we falsely imagine it's mainly a problem for banks and rich people. In fact, the data suggests this really is primarily a problem for c…
Neither huge amount of somewhat legit cases of 'unused', nor media coverage doesn't make it right.
I also wouldn't easily compare the murder count (which are hardly underreported) and occupation count (which most likely are, because legal way is way more expensive and lengthy).
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. I had a friend who bought a house that needed a lot of work. Before he could get started on the remodel, someone broke in t…
[flagged]
> Yeah, it would be shocking to those who are used to the godly rights of the property owners on their property like in the US.
It's important to remember property rights vary by state, somewhat drastically.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. I had a friend who bought a house that needed a lot of work. Before he could get started on the remodel, someone broke in t…
Squatters fight against private property which is usually protected by law, it's very rare that it goes the other direction. A lot of squatters want to abolish the possibility of someone having to pay rent to another person to have a place to live, considering that relation inherently oppressive and against a self-ownership of the individual.
> Squatters fight against private property
Do they actually? Would they allow the previous homeowner to come live with them? Usually they seem intent on kicking/keeping the previous homeowner out, which is enforcement of their own property rights.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#417There are all kinds of perverse market opportunities opening. Enforcers who help "convince" squatters to leave are getting rich. But what if there are not enough squatters? Well, they can ask their friends to pretend to be squatters to keep up demand. "Convincing" is not always violent I understand, it be a payment. Yes, people get extorted and you pay them ransom to get your place back.
If the government fixes the laws, now these private "enforcement" companies will be left out on the streets. So, presumably, some will want to convince the government to not change the laws, and may even start supporting PAH!
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I got it. I just think that would mainly mean investors exit the market. If it is less profitable, they either further raise the prices or they get out of the market; the ratio of those two options depends on price elasticity. And prices don't have a lot of room to grow further in my opinion... unless of course the wages grow quickly (and minimum wage indeed has done it in the last 5 years). But then the country…
And what happens when people leave the rental market? Fewer apartments for rent. And what happens to rental prices when there's a scarcity of apartments to rent? Prices go up.
Well, no one can pack the apartment and leave the country. At worst they are left unoccupied, but that's a lot of money to have it parked, and can be discouraged with taxes; so alternatively people sell them... so buy and rent eventually go down.
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#419I live in Spain and own property in Spain. There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. It's not a small problem, there's like 12K cases per year last time I checked. Eve…
> There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. I had a friend who bought a house that needed a lot of work. Before he could get started on the remodel, someone broke in t…
Living in Spain, I have friends from both ends of the spectrum: those speculating with houses and those who cannot afford to buy one.
We can blame the okupas, calling them lazy if that suits you. But we are missing half the story if we don't consider the other end of the spectrum: people buying property purely for speculative investment. For example, consider the housing crisis in Majorca [1].
Since we have enough money to buy a house, it's easy to blame the okupas. However, you should ask yourself: How much would housing prices need to increase before I can no longer afford a home? What would I do with my kids in that situation?
Justice should be defended with a veil of ignorance about your personal situation. It's easy to talk about what is fair regarding housing if you own two or three properties. Talk to people, and you will understand how lucky you may have been.
[1] https://www.dw.com/en/mallorca-property-boom-stirs-sellout-f...
Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem
#420A linguistic question - why is this spelled with a "k"? I assume this is derived from "ocupación" - the "k" looks funny to me as someone familiar with but nowhere near fluent in Spanish.
I don't have an definitive answer, but generally radical movements (like anarchism) sometimes change the expected spellings to appear more non-traditional/anti-establishment. In this case, okupa comes from ocupar, "k" is not used a lot in Spanish so in order to appear even less mainstream, changing the "c" for a "k" makes it stand out more.
That'd be my guess at least. Maybe someone could track down a definitive answer.