Live data from Hacker News

Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

idealista.com

221–230 of 930 posts

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#221
Can we establish that the squatters are doing this out of economic necessity and not to "profit" (e.g can't afford to rent or own someplace else)? I imagine so as living with no security in an abandoned building with no utilities seems pretty desperate, sub-optimal and sad.

If we can then realistically the root cause to this is lack of housing supply. "Just build more f**ing houses" would fix this no?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#222
post #84

Squatters cannot break into your home and take residence. They can only enter if you leave a window or door open for them to enter. If they break-in that is a criminal offence and the police will treat it as a buglary and arrest those in the property. I used to squat here on Airstrip One in my twenties when I was homeless. We did not squat in homes where people lived, We squatted in empty properties. The utilities co…

It is not what happened a few meters from my home in a completely closed apartment. The "squatters" broke the first-floor window to enter, the Mossos took 15 minutes to arrive and did absolutely nothing. They have been there for six months, they already changed the front door, and the owner cannot get them out.

In that case, was the dwelling abandoned? Of course the squatters are gonna say they didn't break in because that's the only way they'll keep their homes, but is it morally wrong to break into a speculator-owned dwelling that has been empty for 5 years? I've personally done it multiple times in my youth...

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#223
post #140
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's madness is the state allowing property owners to leave vacant, dilapidated buildings to blight the neighborhood. Owners should be required to maintain their structures and keep them occupied, or forfeit the property.

In germany, if you see such a abandoned property, you cannot even ask the authority who owns it, if you have the plans to buy it (you would have to rely on local people knowing and telling you). There are quite some neglected properties around here and the owners are away, do not care anymore and the authorities do not care as long as the low property taxes are paid. There was a case close by, where a buisness wanted…

don't you also have the "Grundbuch" (title register) in Germany, like we do here in Austria?

-- snip --

okay, I looked it up. you have, but it's not fully public like ours. Yeez that's messed up!

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#224
post #165

Idealista and all the real estate companies are the morons feeding the problem by putting the country for rent. They’re the reason people can’t afford a house and we have to talk about okupas in the first place.

First, I think okupas are a very small problem, mainly used for propaganda.

But how are real state companies feeding the problem? The problem is that there's no houses available, because politicians create artificial scarcity. In any local government, the stronger department is "Urbanism", decides if you get rich by allowing you to develop on your property, or you stay poor because you don't get the permits.

Come on, this is very public knowledge in Spain, they barely try to hide. Everybody knows how it works, and how close the biggest (and even not so big) developers are to the politicians. Then they politicians blame Idealista or AirBnb like they don't have any power to allow the country to duplicate the available housing starting today.

There is also the problem with the insecurity for the landlord in Spain: right now, is you rent to a family with kids, and the family doesn't pay, you can't do nothing! How is it a mistery that landlords are retiring their properties from the rent market to sell them? That's causing a massive shortage, that causes prices do go up.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are in IT earning only 20K EUR per year? That is unbelievable! Why is the housing crisis happening? What changed? Did you have a population boom? > Not to mention all the "expats" and "digital nomads" that are willing to pay whatever the landlord says because they really really want to live here without thinking about the consequences, but that's another story. Hmmm. Do you have any stats on this matter? It seems…

It is a pretty normal salary here in Spain. The housing crisis is happening because of several factors, but mostly because there's a huge increase in demand due to immigration (millions of people coming) from all profiles (richer and poorer) so we're getting squeezed hard. The regulations around housing are so bad that almost nothing is getting built. What's getting built is for wealthy people, and no public housing…

I can suggest Romania. Depending on your IT skills, 2000 euro in IT is considered minimum and country is still very cheap to live in. There is a great shortage in IT there..

Climate also similar to Spain in sommer , you will get used to winters as well. Seaside and mountains are available.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#226

I have seen some apartment being severely reduced because they are under occupation (makes sense since the buyer buys an apartment they cant even go into without a multi-year legal process). I wonder if it ever happens that people occupy an apartment only to get the owner to sell for cheap and then they (or their friend) buys the apartment for cheap?

I've never heard of something like this. It's not exactly like squatters are millionaires trying to save on rent to buy more champagne... I'm not saying this has never existed, there's probably an outlier somewhere.

What does exist for sure and is publicly advertised is companies like the original article trying to make owners desperate about squatters so they will sell their property for cheap. For example here in France, "Squat Solutions" has been doing this for years, buying property for ~10% of market price because of squatters, after convincing the owners they had already lost everything.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#227
post #165

Idealista and all the real estate companies are the morons feeding the problem by putting the country for rent. They’re the reason people can’t afford a house and we have to talk about okupas in the first place.

First, I think okupas are a very small problem, mainly used for propaganda. But how are real state companies feeding the problem? The problem is that there's no houses available, because politicians create artificial scarcity. In any local government, the stronger department is "Urbanism", decides if you get rich by allowing you to develop on your property, or you stay poor because you don't get the permits. Come on,…

Yes, seriously, blaming a real-estate listing website for listing real-estate is absolutely insane. We all need to build more housing, that's it. That's the solution.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because the landlord would either get the rest under the table or the competition would move onto risk profiles, where someone earning 4/5k month would beat any spaniard with our unstable and poorly paid jobs. In the end, we either do it like in Vienna or Singapore, or we're not going to solve it.

Singapore, I know about: A huge amount of decent public housing. Is Vienna similar? Is there no political pressure in Spain to build more decent public housing?

Vienna has a massive public, universal, rent system. Like 50% of the total housing stock.

Everyone says they're going to make public housing here in Spain, nobody does anything.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#229

The housing construction in Spain dropped flat in 2018. From building 9000 units/month to 700 units. Yet the population increased in 1,000,000 people in the last 10 years. It is not sustainable. https://tradingeconomics.com/spain/housing-starts https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/spain-populat...

What would be more interesting is to have statistics about empty dwellings. The banks have evicted countless people after the 2008 crisis, but are they renting those places now? If so, how cheap is it?

There is no shortage of housing. There is a shortage of rentable affordable housing, due to an epidemic of greedy landlord accaparating the market.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#230
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality most cases of squatting are financial assets that property owners have no plan to rent to anyone. In an area where housing space that people can afford are very few and far between, nbuying properties for the sole purpose of speculation can be seen on a similar level of unethicality as occupying a space you don't own.

Absolute nonsense. Why would a "speculator" refuse to rent out their property and make a profit out of it?

Real estate is baby boomers and older millennials (as they inherited from their parents) "cryptocurrency" (as speculative asset). They HODL it to manufacture scarcity.

Just for reference, in a small city (40K people, 8 sq. km.) you can find 2K empty properties out of the market because it's more profitable to wait prices to raise.

Post reply on HN