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Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

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Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#141

Post by jmcb »

There is no such "okupas problem" in Spain. If someone enter your dwelling (don't really know if is the correct term in English. In Spanish the house where you actually live is called "morada"), you can call the police and they will evict whoever is in the house in less than 24 hours.

Other topic is holiday residences; those are not dwelling ("morada") so, in Spain, the right to have a dwelling is on the top of private property so yes, it's quite difficult to evict people who entered the house in this scenario. The ones who really have the problem are the people who buy houses for the summer.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#142

Post by lottin »

nephanth wrote: post #106

I mean from a justice standpoint, squatting is wrong But from a societal standpoint, the laws being this way have a bunch of positive externalities 1. It provides shelter to the homeless, with all the advantages we know that has 2. It provides an incentive to not leave property vacant. Very important in a country with high vacancy rates 1nd a hiusing crisis. Note also that this is done at the expense of investors. Wh…

If investing in housing is made less profitable, there will be less investing and consequently less supply in the long run, thus making the housing problem worse.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#143

Post by stevenwoo »

StevenHarlow wrote: post #51
ssijak wrote: post #33

This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…

I live in Spain (Valencia) and see lots of okupas around the city. In reality they occupy buildings that aren't being occupied. Property taxes are incredibly low here and many people who own empty buildings are fine with letting them sit, fall apart, and eat the property tax than do anything with them. These are the buildings that are prone to Okupas. I've never seen nor heard of it happening to actively used buildin…

Heck, some streets in industrial areas in Silicon Valley and the street my local Costco in Mountain View down Rengstorff across 101 from Google HQ are lined with people living in cars and vans and RVs.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#144

Post by dr__mario »

"The rise of okupation"... but they make no references to data. Here is the data (in Spanish) [1].

The difference between trespassing (that somebody enters in the house you live) and usurpation (the house is yours but is not where you live) is very important. Both problems are way less prevalent than what appears on the media (see [1]), but trespassing is waaay lower (and as the owner you have better mechanisms to recover your house).

However, there is a huge propaganda campaign here in Spain, where TV shows talk constantly about trespassing, and one can only imagine what they get from that (swaying votes to conservative political groups, selling alarms, less rights to people that live on rented apartments...)

[1] https://maldita.es/malditateexplica/20221026/datos-okupacion...

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#145

Post by eduardo_f »

jmcb wrote: post #141

There is no such "okupas problem" in Spain. If someone enter your dwelling (don't really know if is the correct term in English. In Spanish the house where you actually live is called "morada"), you can call the police and they will evict whoever is in the house in less than 24 hours. Other topic is holiday residences; those are not dwelling ("morada") so, in Spain, the right to have a dwelling is on the top of priva…

I invest in real estate in Spain and this is not true.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#146

Post by [deleted] »

jmcb wrote: post #141

There is no such "okupas problem" in Spain. If someone enter your dwelling (don't really know if is the correct term in English. In Spanish the house where you actually live is called "morada"), you can call the police and they will evict whoever is in the house in less than 24 hours. Other topic is holiday residences; those are not dwelling ("morada") so, in Spain, the right to have a dwelling is on the top of priva…

[deleted]

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#147

Post by vidarh »

abduhl wrote: post #100
skitout wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if I am the owner of an apartment, I don't have the right to do a metal concert in my living room some Saturdays at 1 am... or don't have the right to paint my frontage the way I want... cause it creates negative consequences for other people. Having vacant apartments and houses for long time in places where there is an housing shortage create much bigger negative consequences than few metal concerts...

You do have a right to do a metal concert in your living room on Saturday at 1AM. You don’t have a right to violate the local noise ordinance or, because your example has you as an apartment owner and not a building owner, the condo association rules. You do have the right to paint your frontage the way you want with respect to the GOVERNMENT. But more importantly, the GP wanted the government to TAKE VIA FORFEITURE…

There isn't a government on the planet which doesn't place limits on how you can paint your property. Try painting a death threat against a government official on it for example.

The notion that property rights is unlimited is an extremist view that doesn't match the legal situation in any jurisdiction on the planet with a government.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#148

Post by fasouto »

ssijak wrote: post #33

This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…

Unless is your main residence, then you can just call the police and the squatters will be evicted, no need to go to court.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#149

Post by terminalcommand »

lukan wrote: post #140
panarky wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's madness is the state allowing property owners to leave vacant, dilapidated buildings to blight the neighborhood. Owners should be required to maintain their structures and keep them occupied, or forfeit the property.

In germany, if you see such a abandoned property, you cannot even ask the authority who owns it, if you have the plans to buy it (you would have to rely on local people knowing and telling you). There are quite some neglected properties around here and the owners are away, do not care anymore and the authorities do not care as long as the low property taxes are paid. There was a case close by, where a buisness wanted…

The solution is actually simpler, set a property tax that would hurt if the buildings became vacant. For example if you pay 1% of the buildings value as property tax each year, it would make enough incentive to rent it out or sell if you don't need it. The proceeds can be used for building public housing projects or helping the homeless. Property tax was invented for this very reason.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#150

Post by victorbjorklund »

I have seen some apartment being severely reduced because they are under occupation (makes sense since the buyer buys an apartment they cant even go into without a multi-year legal process). I wonder if it ever happens that people occupy an apartment only to get the owner to sell for cheap and then they (or their friend) buys the apartment for cheap?
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