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Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

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Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#181

Post by luluspa »

jmcb wrote: post #141

There is no such "okupas problem" in Spain. If someone enter your dwelling (don't really know if is the correct term in English. In Spanish the house where you actually live is called "morada"), you can call the police and they will evict whoever is in the house in less than 24 hours. Other topic is holiday residences; those are not dwelling ("morada") so, in Spain, the right to have a dwelling is on the top of priva…

"the right to have a dwelling is on the top of private property so yes, it's quite difficult to evict people who entered the house in this scenario"

So, there is an 'okupas problem'. You could have saved the whole first paragraph.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#182

Post by unaindz »

misja111 wrote: post #154

> if a property is not adequately secured and is left unattended, it becomes vulnerable to occupation. > Spanish law provides for an immediate eviction procedure that can be enacted within 48 hours of illegal occupation So if I understand properly, if you go away for the weekend and forget to close a window, you might find squatters in your house when you come back, and you can't quickly get them out in a legal way?

You are right but im certain that the amount of incidents like that is really small. A little more common is the situation where someone renting runs out of money and squats to avoid going homeless.

Both types of squatters above are overrepresented and the most common one by far is the anti-capitalist squatter.

People who are fed up with high rents. Not without motives.

Corps buy entire building blocks, sometimes for renting but a lot of times just for storing capital and playing with the market. This combined with airbnb raising the prices more for tourists while salaries i. spain stay the same ends up in rents being totally disproportionate.

Most squatters I know don't want trouble, they get inside abandoned buildings and stay unnoticed for a big lenght of time. Getting inside a building in active use is just asking for trouble, as annoying it may be for the owners it's not the best option for the okupas either.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#183

Post by rightbyte »

ssijak wrote: post #33

This is pure madness. So you have 48 hours after squatting started to report it and potentially get a fast eviction (why is it not an automatic criminal case for breaking into the property is beyond me). But after 48 hours it seems like it becomes a nightmare. So if you are on a business trip for 3 days or visiting parents in a different city or vacationing for a few days and somebody enters your home, you are out of…

The laws are written in such a way to protect tenants from landlords.

A shady landlord will just claim the tenants are squatters.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#184

Post by lelanthran »

diggan wrote: post #36
golergka wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically, if you buy property, make sure to close it and install a security system. If okupas appear, do the "legal fasttrack" and get them out within 48 hours and it won't be an issue. Doesn't that make you not want to buy property in the first place? I'd rather buy it someplace where it can't be stolen.

> Doesn't that make you not want to buy property in the first place? If it was a common problem, then yes. But it's relatively uncommon, and to be honest, I'd rather have the existing system in place where people can legally occupy unused buildings, because there is a lot of them around here. And lots of property owners just keep them empty for years until their "investment" gives them the returns they want, which to…

> But it's relatively uncommon,

I think when an entire industry rises, and then continues to exist, for the sole purposes of defending against (or undoing) the problem, it can no longer be said to be uncommon.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#185

Post by unaindz »

pzo wrote: post #163
terminalcommand wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is actually simpler, set a property tax that would hurt if the buildings became vacant. For example if you pay 1% of the buildings value as property tax each year, it would make enough incentive to rent it out or sell if you don't need it. The proceeds can be used for building public housing projects or helping the homeless. Property tax was invented for this very reason.

Its probsbly hard to reliably enforce it since hard to figure out if bulding is occupied or not. You can have someone registered at the residency but still not live there. You could maybe try to figure out based on water usage but then someone could just leave water tap slightly leaking since water cost is not that expensive Probsbly squatters are those cheap solution that can enforce it in the most efficient way

You don't need to know if people live there, just raise tax enough so that the owner feels like renting or selling the building is better than paying the taxes out of pocket.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#186

Post by coopykins »

The housing construction in Spain dropped flat in 2018. From building 9000 units/month to 700 units. Yet the population increased in 1,000,000 people in the last 10 years. It is not sustainable.

https://tradingeconomics.com/spain/housing-starts https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/spain-populat...

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#187

Post by quectophoton »

littlestymaar wrote: post #133
abduhl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> It's a public policy failure for land to sit vacant like that. Then the government should buy the land. >> For a very clear example: if you're surrounded by starving people, and you own a warehouse full of food that you plan to let rot because you can't be bothered, the government absolutely does have the right to tell you what to do with that food. Let’s not use other examples and argumentation by analogy when we…

> Does/should the government have the right to make you surrender that building without compensation (because that’s what forfeit means) simply due to it being unoccupied? Why? Because homelessness caused by artificial scarcity is violation of a basic human right, and a public order nightmare. Putting private property above other human rights is the root cause of so much problems in today's societies.

(Disclaimer: I don't own a house, and I'm not even earning minimum wage with my freelance work.)

Question. If I owned a house, and went on a long vacation outside the country (e.g. because maybe I like travelling or something), how long would I be able to stay on vacation before the government yoinked my house due to it being empty?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#188

Post by rs_rs_rs_rs_rs »

alexpc201 wrote: post #114
mijamo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is obviously not accurate. The 48h delay is not 48h after squatters entered the place, but 48h after you DISCOVERED them. And after those 48h you will still get your property back, just much more slowly because it is just not considered an emergency anymore if you discover a problem and don't signal it immediately. If you go on vacation for 3 weeks, discover squatters when you come back and can prove you are the…

It is not what happens in Barcelona. For six months the "okupas" have been inside an apartment that a family left completely closed to go away for a weekend, the Mossos arrived 15 minutes after the occupation, probably alerted by "Securitas" and did absolutely nothing. Saw everything from my window, and now I’m terrified if I have to leave my house for one day.

>It is not what happens in Barcelona.

Of course not since it's a city in a different country with different laws.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#189

Post by johngladtj »

reify wrote: post #84

Squatters cannot break into your home and take residence. They can only enter if you leave a window or door open for them to enter. If they break-in that is a criminal offence and the police will treat it as a buglary and arrest those in the property. I used to squat here on Airstrip One in my twenties when I was homeless. We did not squat in homes where people lived, We squatted in empty properties. The utilities co…

[flagged]

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#190

Post by littlestymaar »

quectophoton wrote: post #187
littlestymaar wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does/should the government have the right to make you surrender that building without compensation (because that’s what forfeit means) simply due to it being unoccupied? Why? Because homelessness caused by artificial scarcity is violation of a basic human right, and a public order nightmare. Putting private property above other human rights is the root cause of so much problems in today's societies.

(Disclaimer: I don't own a house, and I'm not even earning minimum wage with my freelance work.) Question. If I owned a house, and went on a long vacation outside the country (e.g. because maybe I like travelling or something), how long would I be able to stay on vacation before the government yoinked my house due to it being empty?

If it's your main place of residence [1], I don't have issues with making it protected against the kind of mechanism we're talking about.

Because you know the problem doesn't come from people going for long vacations, but from landlords hoarding houses and holding in order to never let the price go down.

«Owning a house» can mean two very different things. It's either:

- I'm living in a place and I don't depend on anyone for hosting me.

- I hold some piece of paper that says that this particular place in the country belongs to me and if the people living there don't pay me I can call the police to get them evicted.

The first one is basic human right and should be protected as such, the second one is just something enforced by the power of the state in favor of the upper class against the working class.

[1] which, in many countries you need to declare to the government already, so that they know where to get you should they send the police to arrest you.

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