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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#531

Post by Levitz »

Retric wrote: post #524
asadotzler wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the kind of free speech you get when Israel's lobby drafts and helps pass laws that making boycotts of Israel illegal?

That’s incorrect. There’s zero US laws that make it illegal to boycott Israel. Open a carwash in Texas and you can put up big posers saying you’re boycotting Israel and the state isn’t going to do crap. There are state laws that prohibit state agencies from contracting such companies, but that’s a different question and only really applies to a small percentage of companies. If you disagree try and post full text of…

Boycotting Israel is illegal for any company that works with state agencies.

It's way more restrictive, yes. It's still surreal to me.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#532

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

DANmode wrote: post #519
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take my upvotes. Take them! Guidelines schmidelines! (OK, I only got one).

Take this unsubstantive garbage back to reddit, please.

Hello friend. I've been on HN for a while. I contribute to the discussions here and contribute with submissions (you can check my submissions and comments pages through my profile). I have earned my right to crack a joke once in a while.

Please consider not shooting from the hip and respecting other users' comments here, yourself.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#533

Post by 616c »

refulgentis wrote: post #279
SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #229

The wild part about this, at least to me, is the wholesale incompetence demonstrated by Israel in this regard. If I couldn't google the talking points the bots make and see Israeli officials saying the same things, one would think these bots were Iranians acting with the intent to make Israel look bad.

It's a very interesting thing, it demonstrates something uncomfortable & scary to me as a goy Zionist, who hangs out in a private, predominantly Jewish, space. Note the biggest word in the cloud: UNRWA. All my confirmation bias was in one direction in October. The oddly dissonant and desperate messaging you'd see made things extremely difficult to maintain that, like, you have to be of a very specific mindset to see…

It's amusing you can self identify this way without much hesitation. My personal experience with colleagues and family on both sides of the regional, religious, lijguistic, and cultural debate is that if you talked about being a non-Muslim supporter of political Islamists or up to including Hamas or similar groups, so anywhere in that continuum inclusive, few in Western or Israeli media will hesistate in labelling you in a way common with these talking points: a terrorist.

So good luck to you, but I'm not surprised you'd stay private But my anecdata (or some may call life experience) tell me you'd be fine and fare well where a similarly extreme position on the opposite end of the spectrum would cost you a lot personally and professionally. I wish we all reflected in the West or in tje region or conflict area, well, why is that?

For the record since I inevitably get routinely called an anti-Semite anyway: I think Hamas and groups like them are vile, but many in the region opposing them don't take the high road by comparison either. Im nkt sure if its recent or monitoring that become easier and more economical, but that means their opponents with this crap and other tactics have really screwed up. This HN post further supports my cynicism and disappointment.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#534

Post by StockHuman »

anoncareer0212 wrote: post #514
StockHuman wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of idle curiosity, how did you arrive at Zionism from a non-jewish and leftist background? That has to be one of the rarest identities to simultaneously associate with.

Thank you for asking, it's sublime to see that you're unique in others eyes, very hard to see yourself Let me really blow your mind: also, raised very conservative Catholic, didn't do Confirmation, then was Muslim for about 6 years It's all a long story. Catholic, LGBTQ stuff rubbed me the wrong way and in some of the deepest grace I've seen, my religious educator encourage it. Muslim, I was essentially on my own onc…

Ah! You’re your own Jerusalem; ever in the middle. :)

That does make more sense: unless I read you wrong, leftism wasn’t a real sway here - and that’s easier to square away. Leftist Zionism is (as far as I can tell), almost only advanced by Jews.

Neat, though I’m perhaps confused as to how you might even arrive at Zionism (a rather polar position to take).

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#535

Post by xenospn »

myth_drannon wrote: post #523
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in general what strategy do you need? Take over, destroy the military infra and prevent smuggling. That's all that is needed. Gaza is thousand years back, it will never recover. It is not a threat anymore in any meaningful way. Impressively amoral post, but this is insanity. (1) Israel doesn't exist in a vacuum. It is not self-sufficient. (2) There's something monstrous about keeping 2M people herded up in a cl…

[flagged]

Your point about the Eurovision is something I also am very curious about. I don’t understand how that’s possible, from TikTok and Instagram to Reddit and HN, All I see are mass protests and hate comments against Israel. So how come tens of millions overwhelmingly voted for Israel, even in Scandinavia? Sweden gave them 12 points!

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#536

Post by wolpoli »

leereeves wrote: post #465
endtime wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Israel left Gaza in 2005 But they maintained a land, air, and sea blockade of the region, controlling water, food, power, trade, and immigration. And the region remained under continuous threat of the Israeli military returning. That's not self governing.

> But they maintained a land, air, and sea blockade of the region, controlling water, food, power, trade, and immigration. And the region remained under continuous threat of the Israeli military returning. That's not self governing.

The key is that Gaza can be "self-governing" even with the above restrictions. What they lack is "sovereignty".

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#537

Post by gptretdevnull »

There is zero need for Israel to garner support from the US.

The point of this campaign was to highlight "fake social accounts tricking" "Black lawmakers and young progressives" (>Black lawmakers in the U.S., particularly Democrats., >young Americans, >Black Americans) because at least someone wants them to think that they, their teams and their followers are weak & easy targets, thus reducing their perceived competence and credibility without the necessity of success of the campaign itself, except that similar campaigns existed for pro-Russia and fuck-Russia content all while celebrating Ukraine's destruction, sorry, fight for independence, officially.

These campaigns are part of a cluster. They are not meant to merely polarize but to make some people resign and follow public/ the states' opinions much quicker than they normally would. At the same time, buffs, journalists, educated people and the rational kind spend more time sieving through information sources that are bloated.

I'm not saying this is a conspiracy, hell no, it's entanglement, it's marketing, it's the business of politics and national establishments and companies challenging each other to test ludicrous strategies to sway public opinion. It's all from the modern "The Drump" playbook. Just imagine how at least enough people who fall for campaigns like this, feel when they are told the truth. How many will get angry, really? How many are going to start gearing and studying up? Who are they to trust if their own government supports governments who have the need to run campaigns like this?

This whole "making people support conflicting causes" has been working pretty damn well for the (alt)Right, who is desperately trying to diminish young peoples' independence and turn them all into obedient followers to sell their 'stones are really hard' books and narratives and time on screen.

It's just dozens of millions but that's the few you need make the elected look your way when they are ready to pay2win "at all cost".

So how can we fight this with engineering? We need analysis run by red and blue teams from universities worldwide. I mean it's 2024. The scientific community does it, but their time is dictated by the scientific method. Or are there live projects already?

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#538

Post by A_D_E_P_T »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #513
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are three great powers, the US, China and Russia, and Israel has a um special relation with one of them, whereas none of its enemies do. Things keep going the way they're going, and that special relationship has got twenty years left on the clock, max. I don't think that American support should be taken for granted -- and it's not like Israel is cozying up to the Russians or Chinese. They may well end up like…

I disagree. It is very obvious, as Levitz points out above, that Israel can just cozy up to the Chinese or the Russians if Uncle Sam washes its hands of it, China and Russia who would jump at the chance to gain a foothold in the Middle East, right next door to all those industrial juice springs. If I may. But even if that were not the case 20 years is plenty of time to cleanse Gaza, and the West Bank with it, of ever…

> But even if that were not the case 20 years is plenty of time to cleanse Gaza, and the West Bank with it, of every last Palestinian. I'd say at the current rate it would take hardly a couple years.

Surely you realize that this is completely unhinged?

You are apparently an intelligent person. Doesn't it strike you that there should be a moral dimension to this? That there is a right way to act that is independent of realpolitik? Do you not realize that those people are, quite literally, under the care of Israel's government, and that to "cleanse" them would be a crime of world-historical proportions -- even if it might make life a little bit easier for people in Tel Aviv?

Besides, I don't think you understand what the reaction would be. Also, I think you overstate China's willingness, and Russia's capacity, to meaningfully support Israel should the US wash its hands of the region.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#539

Post by [deleted] »

Levitz wrote: post #531
Retric wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s incorrect. There’s zero US laws that make it illegal to boycott Israel. Open a carwash in Texas and you can put up big posers saying you’re boycotting Israel and the state isn’t going to do crap. There are state laws that prohibit state agencies from contracting such companies, but that’s a different question and only really applies to a small percentage of companies. If you disagree try and post full text of…

Boycotting Israel is illegal for any company that works with state agencies. It's way more restrictive, yes. It's still surreal to me.

[deleted]

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#540

Post by its_ethan »

Levitz wrote: post #531
Retric wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s incorrect. There’s zero US laws that make it illegal to boycott Israel. Open a carwash in Texas and you can put up big posers saying you’re boycotting Israel and the state isn’t going to do crap. There are state laws that prohibit state agencies from contracting such companies, but that’s a different question and only really applies to a small percentage of companies. If you disagree try and post full text of…

Boycotting Israel is illegal for any company that works with state agencies. It's way more restrictive, yes. It's still surreal to me.

It's illegal for any company that works with state agencies to boycott any of our allies.. Israel is a common example because most (all?) countries surrounding it in the middle east try to sneak in Israel boycott terms into every little contract, so it's the most common.

But the same is true if someone wanted to boycott Canada. That company wouldn't be able to work/contract with state agencies.

In what way is that surreal or surprising?

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