Earlier quoted context omitted.
And let's keep in mind that the term "Public Relations" was explicitly chosen as a Newspeak-term because Edward Bernays realised that the actual term for a war time methodology, "propaganda", was too loaded.[0] And honest. Internet is a communications medium. It was destined to be flooded with propaganda, whatever you try to call your particular flavour. Or as I have been saying since the 1990's, the only difference…
My brain just came up with the phrase "You can't spell propaganda without PR", which I think is clever. But I'm going to put it into a search engine now and see that it's not original...
Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
411–420 of 807 posts
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#412Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am so sick of the claim that if you criticize Israel you must have something against Jews. Jews are a loosely-defined, globally-distributed cultural group. Israel is a specific, concrete sovereign country. It is a bit like saying if you criticize Venezuela then you must hate "Latinos". I know for sure that my reasons for criticizing Israel have nothing to do with dislike of Jews. Why? Because I'm inside my own mind…
> I know for sure that my reasons for criticizing Israel have nothing to do with dislike of Jews. Why? Because I'm inside my own mind, so I would know if I had anything against Jews or not, and I don't. People are classically horrible at that kind of self evaluation and will do amazing mental gymnastics to assure themselves they have "real" reasons for their opinions rather then the truth. Unless by point 3 and 4 you…
If I have no conscious negative feelings towards Jews, don’t treat any of the ones I know differently from anyone else (other than maybe asking them curious questions about their culture/religion), and generally don’t have any negative reaction when I find out someone is Jewish, how would you even measure or define this apparently asymptomatic anti-Semitism?
> Unless by point 3 and 4 you mean the complete destruction of Israel I don't see any other outcome Americans protesting could accomplish to "solve" the conflict.
I do not mean that and I think it’s very unlikely the protests will cause that, and to be clear, I think the maximalist demands being made by protestors (“from the river to the sea”, etc.) are too radical, but again, that doesn’t mean they’re necessarily motivated by antisemitic feelings. Perhaps sometimes they are, but it’s by no means a logical necessity.
What I think is possible to achieve by protesting is forcing Israel to back down from its own right-wing maximalist posture towards Palestinians and be open to agreeing some kind of lasting peace or at least easing up on the atrocities they’re committing (and I am mainly thinking of the atrocities they’ve been committing since long before Oct. 7th: the indefinite blockade of Gaza and the creeping settlement Swiss-cheesing the West Bank).
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#413Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the record, I agree wholeheartedly. It's hard to word these things. I hope it's clear the meaning is short of "The UN/UNWRA is above all criticism", happy to explicate at length if it isn't (I wouldn't be surprised, at all, anything I write on this looks like an unnecessarily mousey person's verbal diarrhea to me :) )
That's fair, i maybe overinterpreted. I can understand why Israelis might be suspicious of the UN. The relationship between UN and Israel seems kind of fraught in a way that isn't true of pretty much any other country. The not allowing israel to fully vote until 2010 (edit: 2014), the (arguably) unequal focus only Israel's human rights record relative to other countries, and the whole UNRWA being totally different wi…
You're not going to throw that out without reference to how the US and Israel have consistently been the only countries to oppose Palestinian UN membership and voting.
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dang, We get you’re frustrated but he’s just stating his opinion. It’s not out of line relative to the other discourse in this thread.
I think if you read the guide that dang linked to, it is clear that the account is breaking the rules for flamebait.
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#415The wild part about this, at least to me, is the wholesale incompetence demonstrated by Israel in this regard. If I couldn't google the talking points the bots make and see Israeli officials saying the same things, one would think these bots were Iranians acting with the intent to make Israel look bad.
Even the spooky spy and torture people choose the crappy low bidding implementation partner
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#416The wild part about this, at least to me, is the wholesale incompetence demonstrated by Israel in this regard. If I couldn't google the talking points the bots make and see Israeli officials saying the same things, one would think these bots were Iranians acting with the intent to make Israel look bad.
This is presumably just the tip of the iceberg
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#417Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Given that designation as a separate state, complaining that they can't vote in Israeli elections is like complaining that Canadians can't vote in US elections. I don’t remember the US ever occupying Canada. Not like that at all, and this is a clearly biased take even considering this line on its own.
Do you recall the US occupying the Philippines? Did they get a vote? How about Puerto Rico today? The US is still a democratic republic.
Mine is, a country is only a real democracy if ALL people it rules over have the same set of rights. Israel isn't a democracy and so isn't the DRC, despite the fact that it has democratic in its name.
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#418Earlier quoted context omitted.
> IDF after the initial shock is doing great From an outside perspective, this doesn't appear to be the case. It's like that old management consulting saw: "Strategy without execution is useless — execution without strategy is aimless." Israel's actions appear to be entirely reactive; they're on the back foot, and they don't have a clear set of strategic objectives. Execution without strategy. In essence, they're res…
It appears the government has no clear strategy and lacks the famous "the day after" plan. But from IDF side, it took two weeks to take over the whole border with Egypt. Rafah is empty and by the end of the month, it will be Israeli. So yes, they spent months not doing anything while the government was trying to secure hostage release and Biden was screaming do not touch Rafah. But in general what strategy do you nee…
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#419Earlier quoted context omitted.
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There is an argument to be made that if the Palestinians have to ask permission to become a real state from Israel, then their "government" isn't really a government, and that all the Palestinians are in thrall to Tel Aviv, a government which rules them but does not represent them, whose laws bind them but for whom they may not vote.
Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers
#420it would be interesting to know how global politics and wars would change if the US were to stop shoveling money to foreign countries.
Much, much more peaceful. Once parties lack the resources for war and have to come to peace, it often takes hold in unexpectedly strong ways