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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#371

Post by jjtheblunt »

CorrectingYou wrote: post #366
jjtheblunt wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"greatest ally" according to whose claim? that reads like propaganda, just plain nonsense. perhaps a contender for greatest external funding liability? not sure how the hard data would rank such numerically.

I believe this was sarcarsm, since American politicians like to always pitch Israel as "America's Greatest Ally", thus making it a common target of sarcasm

ahhh....that makes sense then.

as i think of it, it's strange that the US supposedly has a separation of religion from state, in the constitution+amendments, yet funds an external country based on a religion. i wonder what fraction of donations to Israel come back as lobbyists paying politicians to fund the next round of donations. there must be datasets recorded somewhere, but i have no idea where to look.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#372

Post by bawolff »

refulgentis wrote: post #352
bawolff wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like, you have to be of a very specific mindset to see message after message about the evil UN and not say, "uh, did we go off the rails somewhere?" I think saying "evil" anything is wrong. But the UN is still a body made up of people, and like everything has its flaws. Its done some things that have turned out great and truly made the world a better place. Its done other things that haven't worked out so well. I c…

For the record, I agree wholeheartedly. It's hard to word these things. I hope it's clear the meaning is short of "The UN/UNWRA is above all criticism", happy to explicate at length if it isn't (I wouldn't be surprised, at all, anything I write on this looks like an unnecessarily mousey person's verbal diarrhea to me :) )

That's fair, i maybe overinterpreted.

I can understand why Israelis might be suspicious of the UN. The relationship between UN and Israel seems kind of fraught in a way that isn't true of pretty much any other country. The not allowing israel to fully vote until 2010 (edit: 2014), the (arguably) unequal focus only Israel's human rights record relative to other countries, and the whole UNRWA being totally different with different rules than any other refugee group, all make israel a bit unique in its relationship to the UN. I could easily understand how someone from Israel might feel that the UN treats them differently from other countries and is perhaps biased against them.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#373

Post by hersko »

hightrix wrote: post #329
partiallypro wrote: post #31

I'm sure the story is true, but I doubt it was effective. I don't think most politicians are really looking at their social media given most of it is trolling junk. I'm sure Russia/Iran/Hamas adjacent countries were doing the same. I just don't think they have been that effective in getting politician support. Direct lobbying or phone/email is much more effective than an online troll farm to get the attention of a po…

I would argue it is extremely effective. Take a look a r/worldnews vs any other subreddit discussing this topic. r/worldnews is controlled. Negative comments towards Israel get comments deleted and users banned. Any other subreddit, there are people arguing from multiple directions. On r/worldnews, you only see dissenting opinions for the first hour or so until the mods "clean up the thread". Obviously, this is anecd…

The only difference with r/worldnews vs r/news or the vast majority of subreddits is that it leans right instead of far left.

It's just a different echo chamber...

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#374

Post by akudha »

germinalphrase wrote: post #8
SkipperCat wrote: post #4

Not a comment about who's right or wrong in this war, but it is fascinating that we have entered the age of the Internet being a place where warfare is fought. There have always been people posting web content about conflicts but now with Gaza and Ukraine, it seems that the nations fighting are actively looking at the internet as the fourth field of battle. Just waiting for a random US future president to create an "…

Espionage/propaganda/public relations/influence campaigns are hardly new. Social media is just a new flavor to go along with the others.

Yes, they’re not new. But it is ridiculously easy and cheap today to do propaganda than even 30 years ago. We’re connected to the outrage machine 24/7 now because of internet/social media/smartphones, vs say 1980.

God knows what % of the population has mental issues because we watch too much Twitter and Facebook and other crap

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#375

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

edanm wrote: post #333
hehdhdjehehegwv wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is not a democracy, a huge percentage of the populate cannot vote and have no civil rights or any sort. Let’s please stop repeating this falsehood. It’s propaganda and the facts are clear.

[flagged]

There is an argument to be made that if the Palestinians have to ask permission to become a real state from Israel, then their "government" isn't really a government, and that all the Palestinians are in thrall to Tel Aviv, a government which rules them but does not represent them, whose laws bind them but for whom they may not vote.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#376

Post by edanm »

asveikau wrote: post #177
mupuff1234 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This line of propaganda is kind of infuriating. Separate from this incident, Israel bombed afaik every hospital in Gaza. They claimed Hamas was operating inside them or under them and produced absolutely zero credible evidence of it. They killed a lot of doctors and patients. But if they start out polluting minds with the claim that one time at the Al Ahli parking lot, there was an Islamic Jihad rocket once, they the…

[flagged]

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#377

Post by jjk166 »

cjk2 wrote: post #85
WhackyIdeas wrote: post #73

Israel never got the memo about calming their propaganda campaigns down - now even the most average Joe (at least in the UK) can spot them a mile off. They aren’t subtle about it. For a country which is meant to be one of the smartest out there, their propaganda campaigns are an utter disaster giveaway to anyone with a pulse and a few dozen brain cells.

To be fair propagandists generally don't have to aim high. They only have to shift the undecided and uninformed opinions a little bit. You want to see some of the crap the agencies were pushing out pre-Brexit and it worked, so I wouldn't classify the average UK citizen as much to be contended with (I am UK as well for ref).

Same playbook as scammers, you want to focus your efforts where they are most likely to have the desired effect, and those who fall for the obvious lies will always be more easily manipulated than those who require a more subtle approach.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#378

Post by drpossum »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #171
drpossum wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Getting stuff wrong" by not corroborating facts using reliable sources is not acceptable for a news organization.

You're right, but just want to dispute the claim that NYTimes is somehow Israeli propaganda - I think it's clearly not.

Spouting off someone's talking points without verification makes you propaganda. It's just a question on if it's due to an agenda or incompetence. It's one of those.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#379

Post by nsguy »

nerdjon wrote: post #244
nsguy wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose we determine the fine line between the antisemitic "The Jews run the World" and "being critical of their actions"? What would e.g. be the piece of evidence that convinces you that we're dealing with antisemitism and not legitimate criticism? We shouldn't shut down conversations about Israel with antisemitism but we also shouldn't shut down conversations about antisemitism with "being critical of th…

> Why the focus on Israel here? That is the what the article is about and there is something going in involving Israel. I can't find the article I read a while ago with a graph showing their massive increase in spending, but according to a few articles AIPAC plans to spend $100Million this year. As far as how to distinguish between them. I really don't think this should be complicated. Criticizing a government is not…

This might be a useful reference here: https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/working-definitio...

"Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic." ...

"Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation."

Because Israel is a Jewish collective then some criticism of it can be and is antisemitic.

One test of whether specific criticism of Israel is anti-semitic or not is to s/Israel/OtherCountry/ and ask yourself whether similar criticism would be made. E.g. comparing criticism of Israel on its war in Gaza contrasted with the US war on Afghanistan or Iraq or the war on ISIS. For example, when the US bombs a hospital in Afghanistan ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike ) do we see the ICC issuing warrant for the arrest of the US president and secretary of defense?

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#380

Post by mrcartmeneses »

bawolff wrote: post #347
refulgentis wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very interesting thing, it demonstrates something uncomfortable & scary to me as a goy Zionist, who hangs out in a private, predominantly Jewish, space. Note the biggest word in the cloud: UNRWA. All my confirmation bias was in one direction in October. The oddly dissonant and desperate messaging you'd see made things extremely difficult to maintain that, like, you have to be of a very specific mindset to see…

> like, you have to be of a very specific mindset to see message after message about the evil UN and not say, "uh, did we go off the rails somewhere?" I think saying "evil" anything is wrong. But the UN is still a body made up of people, and like everything has its flaws. Its done some things that have turned out great and truly made the world a better place. Its done other things that haven't worked out so well. I c…

Waste of time point scoring?
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