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'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

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Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#161

Post by machomaster »

soco wrote: post #113
whythre wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet many businesses would love that. More places of employment start acting like Walmart, where you have to be management to get a full time job with benefits. Everyone else has a shifting 30-35 hour schedule that makes it effectively impossible to have a predictable, normal life outside of work. And no benefits for part time workers either. And the pay is so crappy food stamps are practically mandatory.

Let me understand this: the state is actually indirectly subventioning Walmart with those food stamps right? It allows them to give crappy wages because the difference is supported with food stamps paid directly to the employees. And we still call this market economy and capitalism and and and.

Sound like capitalism alright, what's the confusion?

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#162

Post by ndriscoll »

lm28469 wrote: post #140
Jensson wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can live on half the space as average people and eat half as expensive food, that lets you FIRE on an average wage. Doing that puts you much closer to typical living standards 60 years ago where people ate home cooked food and lived in much smaller homes.

> You can live on half the space as average people and eat half as expensive food, that lets you FIRE on an average wage Not even close, unless your version FIRE is retiring at 63 instead of 67 and still get 80% of your pension Average salary in germany: 42k gross, 23k net Renting a small place : 500 euros (let's say it includes heating, electricity/gas) Let's say you only eat potatoe and drink rain water: 3 * 1kg *…

I don't know about Europe, but in the US, there are various social safety nets that work perfectly with early retirement with some planning (a topic which comes up in "povertyFIRE" circles). There's been a shift (especially in Democrat-run states) over the last decade or two toward getting rid of asset tests for subsidies, so with planning you can get things like free healthcare, reduced electricity bills, free internet, subsidized home renovations for energy efficiency, etc. while having your assets grow in tax-shielded retirement accounts. Universities for your kids generally have asset tests for subsidies, but many of them exclude your home+retirement accounts.

e.g. in New York state, this is available:

https://info.nystateofhealth.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2024...

You can also switch to part-time in a low-stress role rather than retire completely ("baristaFIRE" or "coastFIRE"). The trick is that you don't want health benefits from your employer so that you can get much better ones from the state instead. Usually part-time doesn't qualify for benefits so that works well.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#163

Post by senordevnyc »

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #143
fbdab103 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Management seems determined to mandate RTO. I am not seeing a flood of alternative perks being offered with suddenly being forced to waste 5+ hours of my life each week commuting.

What is it about managing others that attracts ghoulish humans?

Alternatively, what is it about managing others that causes one to make decisions that you wouldn't have previously made?

My answer: incentives. I suspect that if you started managing people, you'd start to see some of these issues differently too.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#164

Post by lotsoweiners »

ratmeadow wrote: post #139
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #85

I find it odd that everyone here is talking about productivity. Although I guess it's to be expected since posts about increasing productivity are popular in HN; lots of people here focusing on their careers I suppose. Personally I find we work way too many hours. We spend the good part of 5 days a week (if we're lucky) at work, often literally all the daylight hours, at least in winter. I have to take my daughter ve…

Agreed, I find it astounding how so many people seem to be ok with devoting almost all their useful hours of life to work (although maybe they aren't ok but cope / convince themselves somehow). My weekday: get up and immediately go to work, come home, have about 2 -3 hours spare time, sleep, repeat. In that 2-3 hours I'm supposed to source healthy food, exercise, contact family, maintain friendships, maintain a roman…

How many hours a day are you working and what kind of commute do you have? Just curious how that math works.

Me personally I get up at 6:30, start work at 8 (from home), work until 4:30 usually and go to bed at 11:30-12.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#165

Post by toomuchtodo »

sumedh wrote: post #128
globular-toast wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People spend all their lives doing pointless work, accumulating wealth, then have nothing to spend it on so buy something like a car they don't need (like an SUV). It's odd there aren't more people questioning this. Wouldn't they rather enjoy their lives while they're young and not worry about having tons of disposable income when they're old? I guess there's something about security that drives people to the latter.…

> not worry about having tons of disposable income when they're old? Who is going to take care of you if you are sick?

There might be nobody, regardless of what you do.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#166

Post by toomuchtodo »

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #143
fbdab103 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Management seems determined to mandate RTO. I am not seeing a flood of alternative perks being offered with suddenly being forced to waste 5+ hours of my life each week commuting.

What is it about managing others that attracts ghoulish humans?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_superego

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-psychology-of...

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#167

Post by portaouflop »

willsoon wrote: post #18
maximinus_thrax wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we're not going to reach that point outside of sci-fi utopias. I don't believe even the 4-day workweek is going to become a thing. Any increase in productivity will be captured by the owners, it makes no sense to give it back to the workers in the form of free time.

Comrade, what about the A.I. already doing some of our work? I recently read only the title of an article here that pointed out that drawing leaves less of a carbon footprint when it is done by the A.I. It is not a long way from there to getting paid for not going to work. This is how A.I. kills you (3x), not with a laser gun, but with a lullaby.

My carbon footprint while writing code is 100% lower than that of the AI, I would reckon by magnitudes

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#168

Post by hackable_sand »

rvense wrote: post #73
dh2022 wrote: post #50

If my company would switch to 4-day workweek I would use the extra time to work another job.

Cool! I'd pick up my kids earlier and maybe learn to weld or sew.

One of these you can safely do while watching TV or at a ball game.

I highly recommend picking it up if you ever have down time like that!

Learning to weld has actually augmented how I conceive system designs.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#169

Post by hackable_sand »

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #147
unsigner wrote: post #98

Let me offer an intentionally shocking counterpoint: The 4-day workweek only appears possible due to the peace divident, and the peace is rapidly coming to an end. We'll need the fifth, and maybe the sixth day of the week to produce shells, missiles, trucks, tanks, ships, planes, and to make up for the lost productivity of those who are on the battlefield.

What we really need to do is find a way to get the large nations to go to perpetual war with each other so that we can all live in miserable poverty and spend that beautiful economic output on mutilating random teenagers for no reason!

6 days to make the bomb. 1 day to blow it up.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#170

Post by sylvainr65 »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #85

I find it odd that everyone here is talking about productivity. Although I guess it's to be expected since posts about increasing productivity are popular in HN; lots of people here focusing on their careers I suppose. Personally I find we work way too many hours. We spend the good part of 5 days a week (if we're lucky) at work, often literally all the daylight hours, at least in winter. I have to take my daughter ve…

This is a cultural thing, I think. I'm proud to work more hours than my boss expects. My relative never brag about the number of days off they have, but will quickly tell you that they only took one week off last year. The expected reaction is: wow, you're a great worker.
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