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1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

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Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#52

The shift is coming. Just like the internet changed how kids access information, the old way is out. My wife is an educator and we have long discussions about this. I believe lessons need to be upgraded to require AI and how to interact and prompt it for deeper meaning of more than just "Find the value of the hypotenuse". Something in the form of controlled modules? Testing can stay exactly the same, i.e. no computer…

Given the usage of LLMs to rank answers to questions, I think testing could shift as well. Having an LLM (operating with good faith prompt, eg trying to genuinely discover a level of understanding from a student) have a back and forth with a student to evaluate a level of comprehension of a topic could be more supportive of students than traditional testing.

Validation of the LLM to do such a task reliably would be large undertaking, but seems like something that might be possible in the future.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#53

At the moment, the real killer use-case for the current generation of AI agents (Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT) is when you know you don't know something AND you have a specific task to get done. Some examples in past week: 1. Claude: "Why is this code failing typechecking in typescript" -> gives me detailed reasons why, teaches me about some things I didn't know about, and solves the problem for me while uplevelling my un…

> that's almost the perfect task where AI can do both ends. [..] Which is pretty much a sign that assessments such as this have low educational impact.

This seems like a bit too far of a leap.

When teaching math, we want students to be able to prove novel theorems. But all the open problems in mathematics are really hard, so teachers often start by getting students to practice on easier theorems that have already been proven.

In this context, something like "prove the Pythagorean Theorem" is a useful exercise and valuable assessment! You just need to make sure the student actually does it instead of copying the answer from the Internet (directly or via ChatGPT).

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#54
I’m wary when ai is presumed to be infallible despite its hallucinations; I’m not sure that’s a great way to teach kids yet. However, I went through the US public school system, so I’m well aware of how useless the average US teacher’s opinion is on basically anything. I also really want to see the institution change because right now everything after elementary is a patronizing, glorified daycare/prison for teenagers.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#55

At the moment, the real killer use-case for the current generation of AI agents (Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT) is when you know you don't know something AND you have a specific task to get done. Some examples in past week: 1. Claude: "Why is this code failing typechecking in typescript" -> gives me detailed reasons why, teaches me about some things I didn't know about, and solves the problem for me while uplevelling my un…

I hate listening to tech people talk about education like it's some problem to be solved. Using a system that you know is wrong 10% of the time for education is a terrible idea. We're trying to teach things like basic literacy and cultural contex. School does not exist for the sole reason of pumping of good little tech workers. Some things are actually hard to measure and AI being able to put out a convincing looking essay doesn't mean the act of writing essays has no value for the student. The goal was not the production of an essay.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#56

Educational software has always been an abyss. While in college, my summer internships (early 1980s) were at an educational computer facility. They had a "lab" with a variety of available computers and software for teachers to try out. Virtually all of it was abysmal -- glorified flash cards. It wasn't much different when my kids were in high school.

Number munchers, Oregon trail, Odell Lake, Rocky’s Boots, LOGO, Carmen San Diego… My 1980s education technology was kick ass

As a parent, I put quite a bit of time into trying to find the huge number of excellent, new edutainment games that must exist since the market’s a ton bigger now and so many kids have access to tablets and such.

I was surprised to find that most of the best ones were remakes of the old ones (Oregon Trail) or weirdly empty and small in scope like the very simplest, early edutainment games (number munchers, say) as in the case of Dragon Box Math. The boom of ambitious, fun, and sometimes weird 90s edutainment the legacy of which I was hoping to find wasn’t there. Really weird.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#57
One place I think it can be useful is in shortening the feedback loop for learning outside the classroom.

As an example (not K-12!) my wife is learning Japanese. She's taking a class and the teacher gives her homework, but she also studies on her own, including doing exercises in the textbooks beyond the ones the teacher assigns.

Sometimes she'll answer a question, look it up in the answer key, and find she got it wrong. Previously, she had to wait until the next class and find time to ask the teacher to help her understand her mistake.

But I showed her how to use the ChatGPT phone app to get an explanation right away. She doesn't even have to type it in: just take a picture of the quiz (which is all in Japanese, not English) and ask, "Why is the answer to question 7 'C' instead of 'D'?" And she gets back a detailed explanation of the differences between the two answers and why "C" is a better choice, complete with fresh example sentences and breakdowns of what they mean.

Hallucinations are a risk: she could get back a bogus explanation. So far, that hasn't happened, though. She isn't a total beginner and knows enough to be able to tell whether the explanation makes sense. Each time, her reaction has been something like, "Oh, right, I forgot about that," not, "What? Never heard of that." She also tried it on a couple of questions she'd run by her teacher previously, and got back roughly the same explanations the teacher had given her.

In theory she could just ask it for the answer rather than for an explanation of why her answer was wrong, and it would happily give her a usually-correct response. In her case, that's not a problem because her only goal is to actually learn the language. Cheating would serve no purpose at all. But for a K-12 student who mostly cares about getting a good grade, obviously that's going to be a big temptation.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#58

At the moment, the real killer use-case for the current generation of AI agents (Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT) is when you know you don't know something AND you have a specific task to get done. Some examples in past week: 1. Claude: "Why is this code failing typechecking in typescript" -> gives me detailed reasons why, teaches me about some things I didn't know about, and solves the problem for me while uplevelling my un…

I am in school currently and have had students sitting next to me use ChatGPT to help with some in class quizzes, we are allowed to use other resources, so it wasn't cheating. For some of the questions, ChatGPT was flat wrong when analyzing code. One specific question was asking where errors were in a block of code by line number, ChatGPT gave the wrong line number and wrong number of lines on top of that. The student actually knew how to answer the question, but didn't want to think. In a different class, a prof said she knew some students were using ChatGPT because the errors some students made were the same errors ChatGPT made and they were kind of dumb mistakes if you knew what was going on.

I don't mean to say your experience isn't possible nor a fluke. What I mean to say is, if you don't know something, ChatGPT shouldn't be your only resource, you won't know when it's wrong.

edit: words, spelling

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#59
What a clickbait title.

According to the article:

* 25% more harm than good

* 32% equal mix harm and good

* 35% are not sure

* 6% more good than harm

(Yes, those do not add to 100%, but 98% is close enough.)

I came here looking for a fight, but this article does not back up any use of AI in teaching.

I hope that commentators will write about SPECIFIC ideas they have for AI in education (pro or con).

Right now we are in a situation where (many of) the traditional ways we ask students to demonstrate understanding can be done by a computer.

One important worry I have is that most of the best maths students I know are good at arithmetic/mental math even though we have had replacements for that since the 70s (at least). I think that a deep understanding of the foundations allows for a better ability to abstract. If we roll over everything with an AI, are students really going develop the ability to plan (think abstractly)?

I'm not against using AI's to accomplish something, but I think there's an important piece of intellectual development that comes from fluency (without looking everything up). I know one colleague who gets great mileage out of Copilot, great understanding and great productivity. Unfortunately, there's others who are on the "faking it" end of the spectrum - definitely net negatives even when they manage to produce working code.

If you're arguing that LLM's are the future of programming, I won't disagree, but please spend a few sentences imagining how people trained in that world (not the one you trained in) might see things in very very different ways.

Re: 1 in 4 U.S. Teachers Say AI Tools Do More Harm Than Good in K-12 Education

#60
AI in education reminds me of that book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Age

Spoiler alert: seems the author didn’t consider realistic for an AI to do a good job as a general-purpose smart assistant for a child. Yet here we are.

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