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The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

theguardian.com

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Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#71

Post by bilbo0s »

kbolino wrote: post #65
bilbo0s wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just another dimension of the problem. But let's be honest here, there are a lot of child snatches in the US. About 150 to 160 new reports yearly per 100000 kids. By comparison, Denmark annually reports between 50 to 75 new missing child cases per 100000 children. (And even that obscures the starkness of the difference. Because in Denmark, they count children abducted to another country by a parent as a missin…

Aren't many cases of missing children in the US also abductions by a parent?

They aren't counted as missing children cases. That's "parental abduction" according to FBI stats. And also get special handling due to the convention if it's international.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#72

Post by AnimalMuppet »

spython wrote: post #32
mensetmanusman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you are arrested for home schooling. Different cultures have their flaws.

Why would that be considered a flaw? The rationale behind it is the same as behind the inability to name your child XAe or any random assortment of letters – to not make the future difficult for your child, even if you as a parent might want it. It is also one of the last tools that prevents parallel societies from forming. Not that German schools are ideal - they are a bit stuck in the past - but the common experien…

> It is also one of the last tools that prevents parallel societies from forming.

Consider German history. They had the Nazis in power. Half of Germany had the Communists in power. So, you don't want Nazis and Communists home schooling their kids - you want those kids in regular school, where they can be taught about democracy and human rights. But if the Nazis or Communists are in power, you absolutely want to be able to homeschool, rather than have that garbage beat into your kids day after day at school.

So given their history, I can absolutely see why they should be afraid of home schooling. But I can also see why they should want the freedom to do it.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#73

Post by bovermyer »

fvdessen wrote: post #51
coreyh14444 wrote: post #2

American in Denmark here: Yes, this is exactly right. The article covers a lot of topics but does a good job for the most part. The only thing not mentioned from HN point of view is that for tech workers, salaries are MUCH lower than in the US. My family's quality of life quotient though is very high. My kids (12, 14) have basically free reign of the city and we don't worry about them at all.

There's a general obsession on GDP and salary numbers that is a bit myopic. Let's say in country A people drop their kids by car at school, while country B the kids go by themselves at school by foot. All other things being equal, the higher expenses on gas and cars will show up as higher GDP for country A, which will in turn be considered 'wealthier'. But is it really ? Likewise for salaries, the higher number hides…

That... is a fascinating way to put it. Huh. I'll have to think about that.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#74

Post by dfxm12 »

coreyh14444 wrote: post #2

American in Denmark here: Yes, this is exactly right. The article covers a lot of topics but does a good job for the most part. The only thing not mentioned from HN point of view is that for tech workers, salaries are MUCH lower than in the US. My family's quality of life quotient though is very high. My kids (12, 14) have basically free reign of the city and we don't worry about them at all.

What good is "more" money if you have a terrible quality of life quotient? I mean, do you feel your employers are exploiting your labor? Are you anxious about how your family will afford to send two kids to university? Surprise medical bills ruining you financially? Likely not...

Perhaps this is an intentional tradeoff that in some way leads to trusting.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#75

Post by kbolino »

Youden wrote: post #59
throwaway22032 wrote: post #9

The common factor in all high trust societies seems to be that they are culturally homogenous.

I disagree. Switzerland is another example of a high-trust society yet roughly a quarter of its residents are foreign. A majority of those foreigners are from the EU/EFTA but if you think that means they're culturally homogenous, I challenge you to feed a German pizza to an Italian or give someone from Suisse romande a Gipfeli and tell them it's a croissant. I'm not accusing you of this in particular but a common pat…

The choice to deemphasize the differences is part of the culture that's being spoken of here. Eastern Europe went through the same world wars as Western Europe and yet many parts of it are or recently were still riven with ethnic conflict. The Danes and Swiss, especially the native-born and -raised ones, but also those who've joined and assimilated by choice, have broad agreement on the questions of societal organization, conflict resolution, etc. That is a cultural fabric which many other countries lack and which may not always be there even in Denmark and Switzerland.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#76

Post by bglazer »

bilbo0s wrote: post #37
AlexandrB wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US leaving your baby unsupervised is likely to result in someone calling CPS and a bunch of trouble for you. So while the chance of having your child kidnapped is vanishingly small, there are enough busybodies who believe the chance is high to result in the same net effect: you can't leave your baby unattended.

That's just another dimension of the problem. But let's be honest here, there are a lot of child snatches in the US. About 150 to 160 new reports yearly per 100000 kids. By comparison, Denmark annually reports between 50 to 75 new missing child cases per 100000 children. (And even that obscures the starkness of the difference. Because in Denmark, they count children abducted to another country by a parent as a missin…

Isn’t the same true of familial versus stranger abductions in the US? Like the vast majority are familial, correct?

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#77

Post by bilbo0s »

slekker wrote: post #69
Youden wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Switzerland is another example of a high-trust society yet roughly a quarter of its residents are foreign. A majority of those foreigners are from the EU/EFTA but if you think that means they're culturally homogenous, I challenge you to feed a German pizza to an Italian or give someone from Suisse romande a Gipfeli and tell them it's a croissant. I'm not accusing you of this in particular but a common pat…

Is there more homogeneity in their values instead of saying culture?

But the word "culture" is what was used. Not the word "values".

There can be a discussion about whether or not "values" would be a better term. I think that's fair. But switching to a discussion based on values moves the goal posts a bit and we should acknowledge that fact.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#78

Post by mycologos »

snowpid wrote: post #12
throwaway22032 wrote: post #9

The common factor in all high trust societies seems to be that they are culturally homogenous.

Denmark is not culturally homogenous and it wasnt histocally.

Denmark values cultural homogeneity enough to mandate that children over the age of one in high-immigrant areas formally designated as ghettoes attend 25 hours per week of public daycare including instruction in "democracy, equality and major Danish holidays such as Christmas" under the threat of losing government benefits [1]. By western standards, this strikes me as a strong commitment to cultural homogeneity.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1IT1EN/

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#79

Post by pvdoom »

incomingpain wrote: post #39

I've heard this a few times before. Admittedly I'm not that familiar with Denmark. Lets check out the livability. GDP is okish; has signs of foreign influence or some sort of financial crisis. 2.5% unemployment is fantastic. 75% participation and steadily climbing, elderly going back to work? https://www.populationpyramid.net/denmark/2020/ Wow, only 5 million people? Toronto has more people. Though yes elderly going…

> 55% personal income tax rate?

That's not really correct. It is more like 36%. And also it is more complicated than that, as the more you earn the higher it gets, but it's roughly around 36%. The 55% is for example for secondary incomes, etc. what we call a B-kord

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#80

Post by pvdoom »

mycologos wrote: post #78
snowpid wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark is not culturally homogenous and it wasnt histocally.

Denmark values cultural homogeneity enough to mandate that children over the age of one in high-immigrant areas formally designated as ghettoes attend 25 hours per week of public daycare including instruction in "democracy, equality and major Danish holidays such as Christmas" under the threat of losing government benefits [1]. By western standards, this strikes me as a strong commitment to cultural homogeneity. [1]…

Nah, thats not Denmark, thats a particular racist government
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