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The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

theguardian.com

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Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#51

Post by fvdessen »

coreyh14444 wrote: post #2

American in Denmark here: Yes, this is exactly right. The article covers a lot of topics but does a good job for the most part. The only thing not mentioned from HN point of view is that for tech workers, salaries are MUCH lower than in the US. My family's quality of life quotient though is very high. My kids (12, 14) have basically free reign of the city and we don't worry about them at all.

There's a general obsession on GDP and salary numbers that is a bit myopic. Let's say in country A people drop their kids by car at school, while country B the kids go by themselves at school by foot. All other things being equal, the higher expenses on gas and cars will show up as higher GDP for country A, which will in turn be considered 'wealthier'. But is it really ? Likewise for salaries, the higher number hides what it is expended for, maybe you'll need to expend a lot more to be able to live in a high quality of life neighbourhood.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#52

Post by jayski »

I visited 2 years ago, it made me rethink everything I thought about society.

The parliament has no guards, you can just walk in and talk to one of your representatives. Who BTW all biked there, evidenced by all the bikes outside. 95%+ of people look to be thin and fit. Everyone looks happy.

A common misconception is that the Danes success is their system. I like how this article frames it around trust, because that is really the core issue. The system is almost irrelevant if you have decent,honorable people participating in it.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#53

Post by [deleted] »

intunderflow wrote: post #43
tossandthrow wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The salary component is interesting. While Denmark definitely has lower salaries than the US, it still has higher salaries than other European countries. I considered moving to France or the UK, but in both cases I would have to take serious salary reductions. Anecdotally, I know that Tesla Berlin hire SWEs at around 60k EUR. Offers from Norway and Sweden have been considerably below what the Danish unions report as…

Danish salaries, especially at US companies, aren't even that low, to take an example: https://levels.fyi/companies/uber/salaries/software-engineer...

[deleted]

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#54

Post by rayiner »

yau8edq12i wrote: post #36
indeed30 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in what you're comparing against. Denmark is typically towards the bottom of any measure of cultural or ethnic diversity - e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_ranked_by_et... I have been to Denmark many times and it strikes me as considerably more homogenous than the UK or the US.

It's funny how little time it takes to go from "cultural" to "ethnic". Say what you think instead of using whistles: you think that Denmark conforms to your racially focused worldview, that it's "pure", or whatever. Am I correct? Funnily enough, Denmark is a few places below France in "ethnic fractionalization", yet somehow, racists worldwide insist that France has become a shithole because of immigration.

It’s not a “whistle.” Culture is virtually co-extensive with ethnicity in most places in the world. I come from a country whose name literally just translates into “country of $ethnic_group.” To the point where the largest country in the world, China, has lumped myriad different populations into the ethnic grouping of “Han Chinese” to cultivate cultural uniformity.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#55

Post by vertis »

incomingpain wrote: post #39

I've heard this a few times before. Admittedly I'm not that familiar with Denmark. Lets check out the livability. GDP is okish; has signs of foreign influence or some sort of financial crisis. 2.5% unemployment is fantastic. 75% participation and steadily climbing, elderly going back to work? https://www.populationpyramid.net/denmark/2020/ Wow, only 5 million people? Toronto has more people. Though yes elderly going…

Most of Europe has similar taxation. They get a lot for their money though. Public transport and health. I would live in Denmark in a heartbeat, have visited so many times as a digital nomad.

But I'd have to go work for a tech company there or convince them that whatever startup I want to have a go at next is enough to be accepted by the startup visa (complicated).

If anyone from Denmark or Sweden (which I love as well) reads this and wants someone with 20+ YOE in tech (programming, startups) do get in contact, my details are on my profile.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#56

Post by [deleted] »

spython wrote: post #32
mensetmanusman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you are arrested for home schooling. Different cultures have their flaws.

Why would that be considered a flaw? The rationale behind it is the same as behind the inability to name your child XAe or any random assortment of letters – to not make the future difficult for your child, even if you as a parent might want it. It is also one of the last tools that prevents parallel societies from forming. Not that German schools are ideal - they are a bit stuck in the past - but the common experien…

[deleted]

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#57

Post by fvdessen »

jayski wrote: post #52

I visited 2 years ago, it made me rethink everything I thought about society. The parliament has no guards, you can just walk in and talk to one of your representatives. Who BTW all biked there, evidenced by all the bikes outside. 95%+ of people look to be thin and fit. Everyone looks happy. A common misconception is that the Danes success is their system. I like how this article frames it around trust, because that…

You can have a system that produces decent, honorable people, and systems that do the exact opposite

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#58

Post by tossandthrow »

shiftright wrote: post #49
intunderflow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Danish salaries, especially at US companies, aren't even that low, to take an example: https://levels.fyi/companies/uber/salaries/software-engineer...

That's more than double what the average company pays a senior dev in Denmark.

The big difference is the stock component, which Danish companies usually does not offer.

But DKK 1.000.000 a year is not far off senior roles. (However, a lot of roles are also much lower).

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#59

Post by Youden »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #9

The common factor in all high trust societies seems to be that they are culturally homogenous.

I disagree. Switzerland is another example of a high-trust society yet roughly a quarter of its residents are foreign. A majority of those foreigners are from the EU/EFTA but if you think that means they're culturally homogenous, I challenge you to feed a German pizza to an Italian or give someone from Suisse romande a Gipfeli and tell them it's a croissant.

I'm not accusing you of this in particular but a common pattern I see is Americans making comments like this because they assume that homogeneity of ethnicity or race means homogeneity of culture. There are in fact very large differences, resulting in conflicts such as WWI and WWII. Things aren't peaceful because everyone is the same, they're peaceful because people have learned to live together peacefully despite those differences.

Re: The Denmark secret: how it became the most trusting country

#60

Post by mrkeen »

incomingpain wrote: post #39

I've heard this a few times before. Admittedly I'm not that familiar with Denmark. Lets check out the livability. GDP is okish; has signs of foreign influence or some sort of financial crisis. 2.5% unemployment is fantastic. 75% participation and steadily climbing, elderly going back to work? https://www.populationpyramid.net/denmark/2020/ Wow, only 5 million people? Toronto has more people. Though yes elderly going…

> 55% personal income tax rate? Yikes! 25% sales tax, 22% corporate tax. Those are some insane taxes.

Yes, insane. It's the kind of stat that you should question while reading, and before writing.

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