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Bossware is a big legal risk

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Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#211

Post by talideon »

Dalewyn wrote: post #118
paxys wrote: post #57

Everyone replying with "what's the big deal?" is showing their tech privilege. You may not have to deal with intrusive monitoring, but warehouse workers are increasingly being made to wear ankle bracelets so every movement of theirs can be monitored and stack ranked. Workers in WFH "gig" jobs are made to install always-on keyloggers and other monitoring software on their personal computers and phones (which are requi…

>install always-on keyloggers and other monitoring software on their personal computers and phones 1. WTF is anyone doing using their personal belongings for their work? Cleanly and clearly demarcating personal and professional is CYA 101, for both employee and employer. 2. WTF is the employer doing if they don't provide all necessary tooling for the job prescribed? 3. WTF are you doing working for above employer? I…

I had to make a point of getting a company phone. If I didn't, it would've meant allowing my employer's IT department access to my phone, including the ability to read arbitrary data and to be able to wipe it. That's a big no, but thankfully they saw sense.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#212

Post by next_xibalba »

paxys wrote: post #165
next_xibalba wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find a single source for your claim that warehouse workers are being made to wear ankle bracelets. The closest I see is an Amazon patent from 2018. This kind of hyperbole is not helpful to conversations like this. I've worked in factories and seen the degree to which productivity is an issue. I actually lobbied for us to use the time tracking that was already available to us via our ERP, and management declin…

It is literally mentioned in the article, but sure.

It is not. If I'm wrong, please quote the exact line in full.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#213

Post by jacknews »

This is going to be impossible to police, and we haven't seen anything yet:

All knowledge workers (at least) are going to end up with real Bossware, in the form of a an AI chatbot boss.

Of course they will be called AI assistants, co-workers, collaborators, secretaries, etc, but while they will most likely be able to help complete complex tasks in a variety of industries, it's absolutely certain that they will be able to 'help' with todo lists and scheduling.

So, after conversing with your personalized AI to create a new sales report or whatever, the AI is going to helpfully remind you that you have a meeting in 20 minutes, and that's just enough time to squeeze in the product inventory report, if we go for it.

And then at the end of the day/week/month, the AI will 'helpfully' assess your performance and recommend corrective measures.

And make recommendations about you to your human bosses too, of course.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#214

Post by epsilonic »

Is there any networking hardware that can intercept and obfuscate payloads that are collected by bossware tools? Also, is there a database of known bossware? I’ve used MITM proxy to intercept web analytics payloads, but I’m curious to know if there is anything available at the hardware level.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#215

Post by mindslight »

jonathankoren wrote: post #19
exabrial wrote: post #9

The reasons given are pretty much a nothingburger and standard compliance items you should be doing anyway! I am trying to figure out what exactly is the problem people have though: you're literally on a company asset, being paid by the company, you've signed copyright away, you're aware their is no expectation of privacy. Use your cell phone or your home computer for home business, work during company hours, doesn't…

You want to know how the Overton window shifted from workers as humans, to workers as property? Look at laws around the telephone. If you have a telephone on your desk, it is illegal for your employer to secretly listen into those calls. However, if you send an email, you employer has every right to secretly read them. The only difference is, emails don’t exist in the 30s, but telephones did.

Objective snapshot-in-time comparisons like this are fantastic. It's all too easy for the novelty of tech churn to serve as justification for the age-old authoritarian desire.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#216

Post by elicksaur »

next_xibalba wrote: post #212
paxys wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is literally mentioned in the article, but sure.

It is not. If I'm wrong, please quote the exact line in full.

As pointed out elsewhere in the thread, the distinction of where a wearable device is worn on the body is not the most important point to most people.

I don’t see how someone can read the various articles about how closely workers are monitored in warehouses these days and be this defensive about the surveillance practices. Do you work for a tech company that uses a lot of warehouses? ;)

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#217

Post by saagarjha »

Etheryte wrote: post #154
saagarjha wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pkill -9 caffeinate seems pretty reasonable for them to start doing

I mean, you can just make a copy and name it whatever? You can even have it generate a new name every time you run it if you'd like. Imo this is a rather pointless cat and mouse game with developers, because either they can't do their work properly or there will be ways to work around stuff like this.

I mean it was pointless way before that, but yes

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#218

Post by saagarjha »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #167
saagarjha wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a contractor? This makes things a lot easier. For salaried employees that kind of agreement is far more common :(

No, I was an employee. However, I worked at a company that employed a ton of photographers, and there is no way that they would be able to get photographers to sign over that kind of authority to the company. That said, I was there for almost 27 years, and a lot could change, in that time. By the time I left, their HR was starting to get downright rapacious, so newer employees might have had to sign over those kinds…

Yeah, fair enough. Employment contracts have gotten a lot worse over the years as lawyers figured out what they could get away with.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#219

Post by t0bia_s »

paxys wrote: post #57

Everyone replying with "what's the big deal?" is showing their tech privilege. You may not have to deal with intrusive monitoring, but warehouse workers are increasingly being made to wear ankle bracelets so every movement of theirs can be monitored and stack ranked. Workers in WFH "gig" jobs are made to install always-on keyloggers and other monitoring software on their personal computers and phones (which are requi…

-> I'm happy the government is finally stepping in.

Why are you happy from taking learning process and responsibility from individuals? With regulation of sick mindset you potentially keep alive edited form of it.

Instead employees should really refuse to be part of those illegal activity and let company die naturally. This learn both sides.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#220

Post by singleshot_ »

bitwize wrote: post #92
singleshot_ wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t accept that either. I’ll bring my own computer and then we don’t have to worry about your stupid spyware games. The attitude of some employers is very poor.

Due to security restrictions, any device you bring to work to use for Company purposes is subject to the IT Acceptable Use Policy and you consent to allow Company to take whatever measures it deems necessary to protect its data including, but not limited to, network monitoring and mandatory installation of endpoint security software. I haven't seen this implemented for developer workstations; generally BYOD is forbid…

This is not true, fortunately. Perhaps where you work.
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