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Bossware is a big legal risk

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Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#91

Post by bitwize »

davely wrote: post #22
woleium wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just assume it does

No kidding! We have some ridiculous timeout on our work machines that triggers the screensaver after 2 minutes of idle time (we can’t change this). After it’s triggered, you need to enter your password to unlock (company mandated, 10 chars minimum, no repeating chars, at least 1 upper and 1 lower case char, at least 1 special symbol, change every 90 days, can't be too similar to last 10(!) passwords). Okay, this is a…

Slack sets your status to "away" after 30 min of inactivity. You cannot disable this.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#92

Post by bitwize »

singleshot_ wrote: post #85
dymk wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not your computer, it's a company laptop.

Wouldn’t accept that either. I’ll bring my own computer and then we don’t have to worry about your stupid spyware games. The attitude of some employers is very poor.

Due to security restrictions, any device you bring to work to use for Company purposes is subject to the IT Acceptable Use Policy and you consent to allow Company to take whatever measures it deems necessary to protect its data including, but not limited to, network monitoring and mandatory installation of endpoint security software.

I haven't seen this implemented for developer workstations; generally BYOD is forbidden for computers. I have seen this implemented for cellphones. If you want to use a personal cellphone for work, you have to install their MDM app and the device becomes, in effect, the company's cellphone.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#93

Post by brokenmachine »

vundercind wrote: post #17
exabrial wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you answer this question directly: What is it that you don't want seen by a company representative, on a company computer, while being paid by the company?

How would you feel about audio recording in break rooms and hallways? How about fart-detectors in the chairs, recording all that to some database? Same idea, and maybe you wouldn’t mind but surely you can see why many people would. FWIW enough people do mind that this kind of thing is illegal in some countries.

Farts on company time are company property, so they must be recorded for compliance and liability reasons.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#94

Post by bitwize »

Havoc wrote: post #11

Never seen anything like this IRL despite working at various major companies. Hell the other day I explained to my rather senior boss that the yellow teams icon means away from desk. Work is me trading my time for money, and I can begrudgingly accept some level of monitoring. That's after all what a boss is - they supervise aka monitor. However the blurrying of boundaries really irks me. This is part of the reason wh…

> Similarly that aggressive invasive student exam monitoring software in use makes me thankful I studied in more classic times.

Fun fact: That aggressive invasive student exam monitoring software is a YC W'21 company: https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/autoproctor

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#95

Post by beefnugs »

ozim wrote: post #32
Terr_ wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO there's a huge difference between "we do this because we had too many fraudulent applicants and this is a compromise compared to having you interview in-person" versus "this is representative of how the entire employment relationship will go." If the former, their fears are not unfounded: Sometimes the person who impressed you in the interview is not actually the same person who arrives for their first day of wor…

I agree. But there still is a line like if I am doing take home assignment I will not install spyware on my personal computer. We can have a zoom/teams call with a person where I share screen if someone wants that with enabled camera as well during coding or for discussion.

If you expect to be doing take home assignments, you need to know how to use virtual machines, restrictive outgoing white list only firewalls (or at least open snitch) and wipe everything except the source code you create. Between companies / every single use

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#96

Post by pseudalopex »

beefnugs wrote: post #95
ozim wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. But there still is a line like if I am doing take home assignment I will not install spyware on my personal computer. We can have a zoom/teams call with a person where I share screen if someone wants that with enabled camera as well during coding or for discussion.

If you expect to be doing take home assignments, you need to know how to use virtual machines, restrictive outgoing white list only firewalls (or at least open snitch) and wipe everything except the source code you create. Between companies / every single use

Anti cheating software can detect virtual machines.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#97

Post by klntsky »

brokenmachine wrote: post #86
klntsky wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately this is a requirement nowadays. Scammers learned how to generate realistic CVs and they organize people to pass online interviews for them. After getting the job, they do nothing, get their salary for the first billing period, and leave.

So there's people who are capable enough to actually get jobs like that working for them? They'd need to get more than one job per pay period for that to be more lucrative than just doing one of the jobs they were approved for. Also the money would be split between the scammers. That sounds like more work than actually doing a normal job, but I guess it may be more automatable. I don't know though, interview processe…

> That sounds like more work than actually doing a normal job

If one is eligible to do the job in the first place

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#99

Post by teekert »

I know I'm (heavily) privileged but man is it nice to just say no to such shenanigans knowing that the company I work for is does not want to loose me. In my eyes this is the healthy relationship: I like the job, they like me doing it. I can make requests, they can do so. I can say no, they can say no. I can walk away, they can walk away (ok technically laws in my country prevent them from being able to walk away but I consider it a matter of pride to leave as soon as they don't appreciate me anymore). All these are just signs of mutual respect.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#100

Post by ebiester »

hnthrow289570 wrote: post #64
root_axis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you vet a candidate remotely without having them on the cam? Especially today with all the LLMs, it's pretty much a hiring requirement if you can't bring the candidate in for an interview.

We're probably at the point where it's cost effective to pay for traveling-to-interview again, especially for the later-round interviews. That is, unless companies are lying about how much damage bad hiring does. I don't suspect they are, but they apparently can't also do the math to go back to that option.

Are the interviewees going to come to my house? What do you do if you're a remote company?
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