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Bossware is a big legal risk

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Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#161

Post by next_xibalba »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #7

I was surprised (perhaps I shouldn't have been) to encounter bossware-like surveilance in an interview process . About 6 months ago I was interviewing with InterSystems, a company that does healthcare software. Only when I signed in for the online coding interview did I learn that they required I have a webcam on myself the whole time. I don't like using coarse language. But it was the first time I struggled to not u…

The amount of cheating and deception in tech interviews is off the charts. There have been many, many examples commented about on HN over the years. So the webcam requirement seems pretty reasonable. Probably best that you and that company went separate ways.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#162

Post by tracker1 »

steve_rambo wrote: post #119
paxys wrote: post #57

Everyone replying with "what's the big deal?" is showing their tech privilege. You may not have to deal with intrusive monitoring, but warehouse workers are increasingly being made to wear ankle bracelets so every movement of theirs can be monitored and stack ranked. Workers in WFH "gig" jobs are made to install always-on keyloggers and other monitoring software on their personal computers and phones (which are requi…

This is crazy to read. I live in what you consider a highly authoritarian and non-free society and can't imagine something like this happening here. Lower paid jobs are even more privileged in some ways: for example, in many companies you can just not show up for work for a couple of days if you feel like it, and the worst thing you can expect is a small pay cut at the end of the month.

It will really vary. Most places I've worked, even in lower paid jobs in my later teens, they're pretty lenient and understanding with personal/sick time.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#164

Post by hammock »

paxys wrote: post #57

Everyone replying with "what's the big deal?" is showing their tech privilege. You may not have to deal with intrusive monitoring, but warehouse workers are increasingly being made to wear ankle bracelets so every movement of theirs can be monitored and stack ranked. Workers in WFH "gig" jobs are made to install always-on keyloggers and other monitoring software on their personal computers and phones (which are requi…

> warehouse workers are increasingly being made to wear ankle bracelets so every movement of theirs can be monitored and stack ranked.

Aha! The true use case for Neuralink - bossware installed in your brain, for knowledge workers.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#165

Post by paxys »

next_xibalba wrote: post #157
paxys wrote: post #57

Everyone replying with "what's the big deal?" is showing their tech privilege. You may not have to deal with intrusive monitoring, but warehouse workers are increasingly being made to wear ankle bracelets so every movement of theirs can be monitored and stack ranked. Workers in WFH "gig" jobs are made to install always-on keyloggers and other monitoring software on their personal computers and phones (which are requi…

I can't find a single source for your claim that warehouse workers are being made to wear ankle bracelets. The closest I see is an Amazon patent from 2018. This kind of hyperbole is not helpful to conversations like this. I've worked in factories and seen the degree to which productivity is an issue. I actually lobbied for us to use the time tracking that was already available to us via our ERP, and management declin…

It is literally mentioned in the article, but sure.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#166

Post by sanitycheck »

tracker1 wrote: post #160
quectophoton wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With web tracking you can at least be 'careless' in your implementation and 'accidentally' make it not work very well because most of the time nobody will ever test it properly. And users can normally install tracking blockers, either in browser or DNS-based (in your home's router), to at least prevent some thirdparty stuff from loading, so that's some defense against it. Of course it's not always possible. But the…

PIhole + Brave + uBlock Origin + Privacy Badger ... I'll deal with the occasional web app not working. More app/site developers should really test to make sure their app works with the ads blocked. When I've worked on public sites, I always tried to make the app degrade gracefully (depending on hidden/reserved element spaces).

I also block this stuff, personally - but I'm not sure I completely buy the argument that it's OK to work on something because technically competent people can circumvent it. For example I wouldn't work on China's Great Firewall (not that they'd ask me to) - even though those with sufficient skill and bravery can penetrate it.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#167

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

saagarjha wrote: post #148
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a big reason that I purchased my own, personal computer, many years ago. I was paid well enough, that it was quite possible. Back then, they hadn't really gotten going with all the monitoring stuff, but I did it from a sense of personal integrity. I was writing open-source stuff, and there was no way that I was going to allow my company to try to claim it. I didn't use company time, and I didn't use company eq…

Are you a contractor? This makes things a lot easier. For salaried employees that kind of agreement is far more common :(

No, I was an employee.

However, I worked at a company that employed a ton of photographers, and there is no way that they would be able to get photographers to sign over that kind of authority to the company.

That said, I was there for almost 27 years, and a lot could change, in that time.

By the time I left, their HR was starting to get downright rapacious, so newer employees might have had to sign over those kinds of rights.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#168

Post by ttyprintk »

next_xibalba wrote: post #157
paxys wrote: post #57

Everyone replying with "what's the big deal?" is showing their tech privilege. You may not have to deal with intrusive monitoring, but warehouse workers are increasingly being made to wear ankle bracelets so every movement of theirs can be monitored and stack ranked. Workers in WFH "gig" jobs are made to install always-on keyloggers and other monitoring software on their personal computers and phones (which are requi…

I can't find a single source for your claim that warehouse workers are being made to wear ankle bracelets. The closest I see is an Amazon patent from 2018. This kind of hyperbole is not helpful to conversations like this. I've worked in factories and seen the degree to which productivity is an issue. I actually lobbied for us to use the time tracking that was already available to us via our ERP, and management declin…

Nice try. The memo from NLRB mentioned in the article makes the claim. National Law Review is the top search result on Kagi:

https://natlawreview.com/article/nlrb-general-counsel-issues...

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#169

Post by BeetleB »

fullspectrumdev wrote: post #49
root_axis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you vet a candidate remotely without having them on the cam? Especially today with all the LLMs, it's pretty much a hiring requirement if you can't bring the candidate in for an interview.

Easy, you ask them to talk you through their reasoning. LLM’s are fucking terrible at this for anything nontrivial.

> Easy, you ask them to talk you through their reasoning.

> LLM’s are fucking terrible at this for anything nontrivial.

Amusingly, one of the common pieces of advice to limit hallucinations is to ask the LLM to walk through the reasoning.

Re: Bossware is a big legal risk

#170

Post by tracker1 »

sanitycheck wrote: post #166
tracker1 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIhole + Brave + uBlock Origin + Privacy Badger ... I'll deal with the occasional web app not working. More app/site developers should really test to make sure their app works with the ads blocked. When I've worked on public sites, I always tried to make the app degrade gracefully (depending on hidden/reserved element spaces).

I also block this stuff, personally - but I'm not sure I completely buy the argument that it's OK to work on something because technically competent people can circumvent it. For example I wouldn't work on China's Great Firewall (not that they'd ask me to) - even though those with sufficient skill and bravery can penetrate it.

I didn't suggest, or mean to suggest as much... I mean that when I worked on a public site with ads, I made sure that the site continued to look right and operate when analytics and ads were blocked. Unless you're asserting that every website with ads or any kind of analytics/tracking is evil?
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