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Suddenly There Aren't Enough Babies. The Whole World Is Alarmed

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Re: Suddenly There Aren't Enough Babies. The Whole World Is Alarmed

#51
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chances are the Genius will never get to actually do anything. It’s not like we select for Geniuses in roles that have power

and that's exactly the thing with having a bigger population: more geniuses, more chances one of them actually fulfils their potential.

As opposed to optimizing the Genius efficiency by making structural changes.

It’s the most stupid of arguments for growth. Everyone in funnel optimization knows that.

Re: Suddenly There Aren't Enough Babies. The Whole World Is Alarmed

#52
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that's exactly the thing with having a bigger population: more geniuses, more chances one of them actually fulfils their potential.

As opposed to optimizing the Genius efficiency by making structural changes. It’s the most stupid of arguments for growth. Everyone in funnel optimization knows that.

Like I mentioned in my original comment (weird how many times I had to type this today), we can get by having a smaller population with western levels standard of living; there's a bit more detail on this in my last paragraph of my comment.

Re: Suddenly There Aren't Enough Babies. The Whole World Is Alarmed

#53
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An aging population that lives longer and longer + shrinking workforce means - the pension system can't be sustained, but also - more and more people need support of doctors, nurses, care homes, etc. but can't find it or it becomes more and more expensive (but see problem above regarding their pensions). Historically children take care of their parents when they are old and in need; in the past century more and more…

There has to be a system where pensions and elderly care can be sustained at replacement birth rates, doesn't there? Otherwise we're in real trouble.

As johngladtj says, there might be one, but it's not the current one.

And the articles states that "some estimates now put the number of babies each woman has below the global replacement rate of about 2.2. The U.S. long ago passed that level." - so even finding one that works at replacement birth rates could not be enough.

Re: Suddenly There Aren't Enough Babies. The Whole World Is Alarmed

#54
post #38
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure if I should dignify this with the response, but part of caring for old people is having enough young people to do it.

Because old people exist it is now the duty of the unborn to care for them? That is so sad.

Because the environment exist it is my duty to pollute less? That's so sad! /s

We do this all the time, including with debt, pensions, etc. Once born, the currently unborn have the choice to take care of their parents or not, to decide en masse not to become a doctor or nurse, to emigrate to a different country without a pension system (or to just be jobless forever to avoid paying for that)...

Re: Suddenly There Aren't Enough Babies. The Whole World Is Alarmed

#55
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> atheists who think we have some kind of evolutionary imperative Procreation kinda is an evolutionary imperative- atheism or not

I'm not super thrilled about being compelled by evolution or a god.

You might enjoy "The Robot's Rebellion" by Keith Stanovich (in this context, you are the robot)

Re: Suddenly There Aren't Enough Babies. The Whole World Is Alarmed

#56
post #48
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That listing of people seems pretty comprehensive. If that’s not the “whole world” it comes pretty close! And to be clear, us parents think that being “childfree” is shallow and selfish, like being one of those sovereign citizens who doesn’t want to pay taxes. It’s basically being the ultimate hipster—thinking of oneself as being too special for something hominids have been doing for millions of years.

When people who don't want to be parents become parents out of obligation they tend to f up their kids.

The idea that parenting makes a huge difference in kids is 20th century anti-Catholic propaganda perpetuated by WASPs. Outside the extremes, parenting doesn’t make much of a difference: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/parenting-.... For the vast majority of people, biology will kick in and make them love and adequately raise their kids, regardless of their individual “wants.”

Re: Suddenly There Aren't Enough Babies. The Whole World Is Alarmed

#57
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow, that’s really quite reductive. It sounds more like this might be a choice you feel strongly about but are projecting selfishness on to others? This can be a totally fine choice for someone to make personally (which I support), but also not good for society as a whole. Both things can objectively be true.

Are you saying it's selfish to not have kids? Other than accidental parents, I've never met any who didn't have kids because they wanted them. How were they not acting selfishly?

It's interesting to see this comment downvoted. I'm honestly curious as to the thinking here. How are parents having kids because they want them not acting selfishly?

Re: Suddenly There Aren't Enough Babies. The Whole World Is Alarmed

#58
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The change is a problem. If you expect x plumbers to be needed in year y and x/2 not many years later (within the span of a plumber's working life), how many should choose to become plumbers in each year? How about buildings and other infrastructure with long lifetimes? Rapid change makes those things difficult. Don't want random home owners to have to speculate on that, and for some of them to lose their shirts when…

How haven't these problems _always_ existed? What do they have to do with drop in overall population? If change is the problem, then both population growth and movement of populations are already problems and always have been.

They always exist. Sometimes they're a minor problem, the steepness of the expected change makes them a major problem in some areas.

But this kind of thing always exists. For example, logistics companies have problems hiring in some countries right now because young people don't see driving trucks as a viable career for forty years, but the logistics companies need drivers for the next ten years or more.

Re: Suddenly There Aren't Enough Babies. The Whole World Is Alarmed

#59
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither am I but evolution doesn’t seem inclined to engage in philosophical discussions

I suppose it's a subject I've long wondered about - am I just some sort of biological robot fulfilling some pre-determined program? Or have I actually been equipped with some sort of agency? I guess it's the old free will question and it may be unanswerable. That said, I can't say I've ever really felt much instinctual desire to reproduce, and if I have, perhaps I have reasoned myself out of the idea in some way. Eit…

Free will is so self-evident that deniers of free will have to give lectures at universities to convince everyone else that the universe is making illusions for fun at the cost of thermodynamic efficiency.
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