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Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]

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Re: Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]

#51

Post by snakeyjake »

redwood wrote: post #31
7sidedmarble wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That visual sensors only seem like they make no sense when they can get obstructed by weather

I don't get this perspective. Somehow humans drive with visual input

The goal is to be better than, not equivalent to, humans-- right?

I work on a synthetic aperture radar system that is high-resolution enough to "see" the painted stripes on roads through fog and a thin layer of snow.

It's not for automotive use and would increase the price of every car by several hundred thousand dollars but a fusion of multi-spectrum sensors should be the direction we are headed-- not a minimally-viable mono-sensor system.

Re: Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]

#52

Post by lopkeny12ko »

Larrikin wrote: post #20
facialwipe wrote: post #6

Tesla has spent more billions on ML than any corporation in the world. I can’t wait to book my first FSD robotaxi ride at some point in the next decade.

You can book a robotaxi now with Waymo. Tesla has been promising that for years. Tesla may have been first to seriously try but currently there's no evidence they will be first in anything compared to their competitors.

People who make the Waymo argument fundamentally do not get it.

Waymo works because they have mapped out cities with maps and millimeter precision 3D scans. It only works in places with good weather. The rules of the road are hardcoded in millions of lines of fragile code. To top it all off, they are basically driven entirely by remote operators.

FSD works anywhere and doesn't rely on millions of dollars worth of equipment and pre-mapped environments. Tesla's technology is scalable in a way that Waymo never will be. You can buy a Tesla with FSD today for less than 50k. Google will eventually realize that Waymo is burning cash with no path to recovery, and shut it down just like every other Google product.

Re: Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]

#54

Post by benterix »

To quote one of the commenters:

> 2. They were using an non-geofenced level 2 highway adaptive cruise system for Mercedes, NOT the level 3 system which is only available in Germany. The level 2 system was never designed for city streets and have limitations on sharp turns, if this would an honest video they would compare autopilot vs drive pilot on the highway, which they won't do because drive pilot is better.

Re: Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]

#55

Post by [deleted] »

cs702 wrote: post #14

By many accounts, Tesla FSD has improved rapidly, now feels "very human," and will soon have greater adoption than any other self-driving software.[a] Speaking from personal experience, I've tested the most recent version of Supervised FSD, v12.3.6, and it's much better than most people realize. Once Tesla stops requiring human supervision, I expect FSD adoption rate to go "hockey-stick." --- [a] Based on a conversio…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]

#56

Post by input_sh »

jfoster wrote: post #13
ethagknight wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had you watched the video before commenting, you would know the point of the video is that Consumer Reports gave Mercedes self driving a much higher rating than Tesla. Video shows how awful the Mercedes software really is

Consumer Reports must have done similar tests to what is seen in the video (eg. just driving with these systems), yet they came out with the result that they did. What happened there?

One of those sources isn't fairly well-known for being obsessed with Teslas (or anything Musk-related really), the other one is.

Re: Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]

#57

Post by hackerlight »

ajross wrote: post #48
hackerlight wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No twist of fate, but self-sabotage in the form of being unwilling to use Lidar. Look how hard Waymo and Cruise are finding it to do robotaxis in a small geographical area and with Lidar. Tesla is trying to do robotaxis everywhere without using Lidar. They're solving a harder problem and are handicapping themselves while trying to do it. Here's why Lidar makes sense. You want independent information streams that are…

That analysis only works when p is non-vanishing, though. In point of fact the "car drives into something it didn't see" failure mode doesn't really exist, or if it does it's at a level much smaller than that of the human driver its intended to replace.

It works regardless of how big p is. Engine failures in aircraft are exceedingly rare but this statistical effect of needing p^2 events instead of p events has saved many lives. Having multiple pilots has the same rationale. While errors are correlated, getting an error past two pilots is roughly p - p^2 less likely than if you had a solo pilot.

Self-driving, as a mission critical endeavor, needs to be leveraging the same statistical phenomenon in order to reduce the exceedingly rare but highly impactful mistakes.

And by "something it didn't see" I'm talking about CNN/ViT mistakes/hallucinations. I don't see any evidence that it occurs at a level that's much smaller than humans. Any safety data we have is with human oversight. So the majority of errors are caught by humans and won't show up in FSD crash frequency or other publicly available data.

Re: Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]

#58

Post by kibwen »

rapsey wrote: post #23
viraptor wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't actually find the amount of data that Tesla uses for training, but I'm curious: how much is it, and is it larger than what comma.ai has?

They can use every Tesla vehicle for training. They definitely have more data than anyone.

Tesla's vehicles lack the advanced sensor suites of other manufacturers, which means that Tesla's moat amounts to a massive quantity of lower-quality data. When it comes to navigating using lidar and radar, they're dead last.

Re: Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]

#59

Post by constantcrying »

mg wrote: post #12

Unless there is a change in how autonomous driving software is trained, it seems Tesla is destined to dominate that market, right? Tesla has the most training data consisting of video input + corresponding driver behavior. And they have the most compute power. Which twist of fate could happen, so that Tesla falls behind in the future? I could imagine that there is an invention which lets AI learn about the world by j…

Data is just cars driving around. Mercedes Cars have cameras too.

Compute power is just money, that is about the thinnest advantage you can have.

Re: Tesla FSD head to head against Mercedes Driver Assist on the same road [video]

#60

Post by this_steve_j »

Since Mercedes Drive Assist is SAE Level 2 and supported only on highways, the high number of interventions is a feature and not a bug.

The Mercedes driver seemed to be engaged and attentive, and therefore not likely to play a video game, watch a movie, and stop paying attention causing a crash.

It would be interesting to see Mercedes Drive Pilot (SAE Level 3) compared to Tesla FSD. That feature is not generally available in the US.

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