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Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

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Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#251

Post by yareal »

MajimasEyepatch wrote: post #148
anon84873628 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course society should become more accepting and accommodating of differently-abled people of all types. But can you really look at the extreme end of the Autism spectrum and say that isn't a disease or disorder? One reason we need this fundamental research is to disentangle the different types of afflictions and give them different names.

You don’t even have to go to the extreme end. Ask people with milder presentations, and they’ll be able to tell you about all sorts of confusing interactions and frustrating situations they’ve experienced that wouldn’t have happened if they were neurotypical. Hard to say that doesn’t impact their quality of life.

Why is that the autistic person's problem? I'm autistic, I broadly agree that eliminating autism is a negative for individuals and for society.

Maybe the difficulties are things we should address as a society, rather than seeking to eliminate a class of people.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#252

Post by tsoukase »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #182
tsoukase wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gut hypothesis hype is trendy right now. There is some correlation but when things settle down, some of the effect will be attributed to "picky eating". Proving that the source of mental disorders is the brain and not the gut (as it was believed in the distant past) is easy: 100% of patients show brain damage while a fraction of them have an abnormal gut

How do you eliminate models where brain damage is a proximate cause?

Exclusion of either cause directions is impossible by definition. This is science not mathematics. But saying that the primary mechanism of mental disease lies outside the brain must not contradict decades of research and simple observation (eg a small brain damage leads to a profound behavioural image while cutting 5 meters of small intestine to none) Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#253

Post by yareal »

ModernMech wrote: post #232
squigz wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously I'm a spokesman for Autism Speaks.

I agree, I'm always happy to step out my bubble. That's why I'm here on HN -- this is not a safe place for autistic people. That said, it was not obvious to me you are a spokesperson for Autism Speaks.

Pretty sure the person you are responding to is just being an asshole, inadvertently demonstrating your point that this isn't a safe place for autistic people.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#254

Post by cja »

asdfman123 wrote: post #249
squigz wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And that many common chronic disorders/illnesses (including ADHD, Autism, weight gain, etc) in our generation are actually attributable to a disfunctioning microbiome All of those things have existed for ... ever

That's absolutely not true. Diabetes for instance used to be extremely rare and limited to the elites. And, for instance, ADHD probably isn't a disorder if you live a very simple life and do manual labor all day. No hyperactivity, no DMV appointments, and your life is decided for you. Remember, all the lines are drawn arbitrarily and something is labeled a disorder when it doesn't work with our (very strange) modern…

"ADHD probably isn't a disorder if you live a very simple life and do manual labor all day"

Why?

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#255

Post by yareal »

tsoukase wrote: post #155
MajimasEyepatch wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s so much brain development that happens in the first few years after birth that there’s absolutely no way you can say that with confidence.

No developmental anomaly can start after birth. It must preexist but is not detected. Proof: heavy cases of autism are diagnosed at birth, so the beginning lies sometime in uterus. The same holds for the lighter cases too.

What the fuck? Of course developmental anomalies can start after birth. Yeah, many initially develop in the womb, but like, the time in the womb is a trivial percentage of a child's development.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#256

Post by cja »

throwaway092323 wrote: post #130
ffjffsfr wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what could be considered ADHD/light asperbergers could be considered, or did you get a diagnosis from a specialist? Self diagnosis is not reliable. If you don't have an official diagnosis you can't be certain you really have ADHD. There may be several differe tfactors relevant for YOU that make keto diet work for you. Same diet can be harmful for similar people who have ADHD.

> Self diagnosis is not reliable Professional diagnosis is not reliable either. ADHD and autism are often misdiagnosed as one-another, especially in girls. > If you don't have an official diagnosis you can't be certain you really have ADHD A lot of the time, the mental health professional making the determination doesn't have specialty in ADHD/Autism. All they're doing is looking at symptoms and making their best gue…

Professional assessors should know much more about the condition for which they are assessing and its signs than any one person who may or may not have the condition. A professional should also know the other conditions with similar symptoms.

I learned about ADHD for six months until I first consulted an expert about the possibility of my having it. He was able to recognise symptoms in me that I hadn't noticed.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#257

Post by yareal »

StressedDev wrote: post #77
faeriechangling wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People like to call themselves autistic when it's just social awkwardness, and some doctors might even improperly diagnose them, but these are separate from the condition. What makes such a diagnosis incorrect when various forms of social awkwardness satisfy criteria A and D of the diagnostic criteria [1], and all of the criteria for social pragmatic disorder[2]? In the DSM-V-TR era psychiatrists are instructed to n…

You cannot self-diagnose, and only a trained medical professional can diagnose autism. By trained medical professional, I mean an autism expert who is either a therapist (PHD, PsyD, LMFT, etc.) or a psychiatrist. Most people who use terms like autistic, bi-polar, sociopath, narcist, etc. are using the terms incorrectly. Also, I suspect you are correct that most ASD diagnoses do not use brain scans and rely on a train…

You absolutely can self diagnose. Your self diagnosis is not as reliable, thorough, or trustworthy as a professional diagnosis.

Self diagnosis is often the first step towards a professional diagnosis.

You can choose to believe self diagnosis is low or zero value, but that's your own value judgement, which is separate from "can" and "cannot".

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#258

Post by ModernMech »

zazazache wrote: post #248

As some one who is let’s say “autism adjacent” it really bothers me when people discuss a cure or prevention. I mean I get it, but this is also who I am and I wouldn’t want to be someone else.

I have no problem with discussion about making some issues people face better with medication, although I think autistic people should be centered in those discussion.

However “prevention” talk is a whole separate issue and that one does give me eugenics vibes.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#259

Post by ikiris »

asdfman123 wrote: post #249
squigz wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And that many common chronic disorders/illnesses (including ADHD, Autism, weight gain, etc) in our generation are actually attributable to a disfunctioning microbiome All of those things have existed for ... ever

That's absolutely not true. Diabetes for instance used to be extremely rare and limited to the elites. And, for instance, ADHD probably isn't a disorder if you live a very simple life and do manual labor all day. No hyperactivity, no DMV appointments, and your life is decided for you. Remember, all the lines are drawn arbitrarily and something is labeled a disorder when it doesn't work with our (very strange) modern…

Because they died...

This is like reading that seatbelts cause head injuries.

Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins

#260

Post by [deleted] »

cja wrote: post #256
throwaway092323 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Self diagnosis is not reliable Professional diagnosis is not reliable either. ADHD and autism are often misdiagnosed as one-another, especially in girls. > If you don't have an official diagnosis you can't be certain you really have ADHD A lot of the time, the mental health professional making the determination doesn't have specialty in ADHD/Autism. All they're doing is looking at symptoms and making their best gue…

Professional assessors should know much more about the condition for which they are assessing and its signs than any one person who may or may not have the condition. A professional should also know the other conditions with similar symptoms. I learned about ADHD for six months until I first consulted an expert about the possibility of my having it. He was able to recognise symptoms in me that I hadn't noticed.

[deleted]
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