Pathologizing autistic behaviors is not the right approach here. Most autistic behaviors are harmless except insofar as allistic (non-autistic) people provide unnecessary consequences for it and through incompatibilities. We don't say that a Linux workstation in a network of Windows computers is broken or needs to be fixed (or visa-versa), but rather we recognize that the problems are due to the differences. As such,…
I think you're engaging in the no-true-Scotsman fallacy with the claim that highly autistic people with a lot of special needs are really "autistic with intellectual disabilities". I disagree. They're simply more autistic and more impacted than either of us.
Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins
171–180 of 358 posts
Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not what the article suggests at all. It's during the developmental stage, which is by nature temporary.
Yes it is. It's exactly what the article suggests: --- ... Naviaux and his team completed early clinical testing for suramin. ... Now, the researchers hope that by revealing the specific ATP-related pathways that are altered in autism, their work will help scientists develop more drugs that target these pathways to manage the symptoms of ASD. "Suramin is just one drug that targets the cell danger response," he said.…
I’ve already received several down votes from folks who seem to disagree with my concern.
Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In my opinion, though, in many cases this is not autism but rather autism with an accompanying intellectual disability That's just like, your opinion, man. If autism warrants needing help with daily living then it's a disorder by definition.
There are two ways that something can lead to needing help with daily living: - society rejects the trait without good reason, so then someone needs help to deal with this rejection - the trait leads to an inability to do something that the person wants to do, irrespective of any societal concerns I am okay with calling the latter a disorder, but not the former. The traits that are recognized as part of autism (socia…
Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
I knew someone in high school that had ADHD. He totaled many cars when he wasn't on meds for things like game day for sports (not sure if that's a performance or health thing). What baffles me, is how someone diagnosed with a condition that affects driving is allowed to drive without the condition being treated - especially if they are under a prescription and just not taking it, and also if they have multiple accide…
ADHD doesn't affect everyone the same though. For example, I have ADHD. I learned to drive at 15, got my license at 16, and managed to get my first speeding ticket at the age of 30, and my first car accident at 31 (of which I wasn't at fault). I wasn't diagnosed/medicated until I was almost 23.I do not think I am any better nor worse than the average driver either. Perhaps I have been lucky, but who knows? Also, just…
Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins
#175Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins
#176> The researchers discovered that a small number of biochemical pathways are responsible for the majority of these changes, which could help inform new early detection and prevention strategies for autism. It won’t. Autism is a socioculturally bound diagnosis, not a single disease that exists in biology. It’s a label for those perceived by others in a certain light, defined in such a way that two with the same label…
> the same label can have remarkably little overlap in terms of observed behaviour.... You diagnose autism based on how people act, not who they are. I'm able to mask until I'm alone. My meltdowns look exactly like the observed behavior you see in other people, I just hide it better. I'm also verbal mostly, until I'm not and I'm dissociating. Then I look a lot what you're used to seeing, except i don't let you see th…
"Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities, or may be masked by learned strategies in later life)."
"Core diagnostic features are evident in the developmental period, but intervention, compensation, and current supports may mask difficulties in at least some contexts."
"Individuals who have developed compensation strategies for some social challenges still struggle in novel or unsupported situations and suffer from the effort and anxiety of consciously calculating what is socially intuitive for most individuals. This behavior may contribute to lower ascertainment of autism spectrum disorder in these individuals, perhaps especially in adult women. Thus, longer assessments, observation in naturalistic settings, and inquiring about any tolls of social interaction may be needed(Cage and Troxell-Whitman 2019; Hull et al. 2017). If asked about the costs of social interaction, for example, these individuals might respond that social interactions are exhausting for them, that they are unable to concentrate because of the mental effort in monitoring social conventions, that their self-esteem is adversely affected by being unable to be themselves, and so forth."
Observation is STILL actually essential to a diagnosis, you can't merely just claim to be masking, but it's not technically considered disqualifying for symptoms to only appear in certain contexts.
>Some people are "high functioning" autists, meaning that they are able to suppress their negative autistic expressions for the benefit and comfort of people around them. This doesn't make them "not autistic" -- they still are even if you personally can't tell. It just means they're putting on an act for you, to make you happy, so that you don't respond in the negative way they are used to being received. You are witnessing a performance.
The research I've seen on the cat-q shows that [1]:
- Neurotypicals men mask a statistically insignificant amount more than autistic men
- Autistic women mask a statistically insignificant more than neurotypical women
- Autistic women mask a statistically significant amount more than autistic men
- Autistics "Compensate" more, copy others behaviour, copy behaviour they learned from movies
- Autistics "Assimilate" more, they will force themselves unwillingly more than others to be social or not be social.
We should also get over what gets somebody defined as having "high functioning" or "level 1" autism. It's a lack of severity of social impairments AND restricted & repetitive behaviours. With autistic men specifically, the evidence points to the "high functioning" as simply naturally exhibiting less autistic social interactions and behaviours than the "low functioning" without any exceptional effort beyond what the everyday non-disabled person does. Some of them may be tortured actors, but said people are no more prevalent than they are in the general population. It's things like imitation, and being in unwanted social situations, which is more characteristic of autism.
>Being autistic comes with a great capacity for curiosity, creativity, artistic expression, innovation, and excellence associated with committing fully (as in actually 100%, eschewing loved ones and society) to an endeavor.
Those may correlate with autism, but aren't definitional of it. The DSM-V-TR's 1891 word diagnostic criteria briefly mentions "Special interests may be a source of pleasure and motivation and provide avenues for education and employment later in life" as the sole positive trait of autistics.
I don't mean to be a dick here - more activist. If these are qualities of autistics, they should either be part of the criteria for "Autism spectrum disorder" or autism should be conceptualised as being distinct from disorder similar to how we distinguish between being transgender and having gender dysphoria. Otherwise, one can say that all they wish, but they'll face negative stigmatisation from those who see autism as a definitionally negative mental disorder with no upside other than employability. "Autism" is quite the stigmatised word today and I blame psychiatry and The DSM for that more than anything else as they treat negatives associated with autism as definitional but not positives.
[1] ctrl-f "What it tests" "Average Scores" https://embrace-autism.com/cat-q/
Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Of course society should become more accepting and accommodating of differently-abled people of all types. But can you really look at the extreme end of the Autism spectrum and say that isn't a disease or disorder? One reason we need this fundamental research is to disentangle the different types of afflictions and give them different names.
You don’t even have to go to the extreme end. Ask people with milder presentations, and they’ll be able to tell you about all sorts of confusing interactions and frustrating situations they’ve experienced that wouldn’t have happened if they were neurotypical. Hard to say that doesn’t impact their quality of life.
Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm being productive by pushing back and saying that when people say that autism needs to be cured and prevented, that they shouldn't say that, because autism doesn't need to be cured and prevented. It's not a disease, but in this society it is a disability, and there's a stigma and lack of understanding around autism in general. What we can do today to make life better for autistic people everywhere is to spread awa…
Of course society should become more accepting and accommodating of differently-abled people of all types. But can you really look at the extreme end of the Autism spectrum and say that isn't a disease or disorder? One reason we need this fundamental research is to disentangle the different types of afflictions and give them different names.
I think the natural reaction to that is that either diagnostic criteria should be narrowed and/or it should be possible for people to lose their diagnosis if they achieve Elon Musk levels of functioning.
-OR-
Autism should be viewed more neutrally, as people of a certain type who are more susceptible to disease or disorders but to not necessarily have them.
Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Schizophrenia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's have links with the gut too. But I "know" they start from the brain. No advanced or complicated hypothesis
How would you prove or disprove this theory?
Proving that the source of mental disorders is the brain and not the gut (as it was believed in the distant past) is easy: 100% of patients show brain damage while a fraction of them have an abnormal gut
Re: Metabolism of autism reveals developmental origins
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm being productive by pushing back and saying that when people say that autism needs to be cured and prevented, that they shouldn't say that, because autism doesn't need to be cured and prevented. It's not a disease, but in this society it is a disability, and there's a stigma and lack of understanding around autism in general. What we can do today to make life better for autistic people everywhere is to spread awa…
This is about people diagnosed before the age of 5, they're almost all cases of severe autism. That's very different from the kind of autism you're talking about. People who are permanently unable to live independently have a condition that should be prevented if possible.
Despite me being in this category you describe, I do not believe I have a condition that should be prevented if possible. I see researchers like FTA as having a conflict of interest - as wanting to portray themselves as the saviours of those shackled by their metabolism - which is best done by painting the saved in as negative a light as possible. I believe that I've been unfairly defamed and stigmatised by the medical establishment spreading lies and half-truths of convenience to promote the need for the general public to finance schemes to cure this horrible condition and take care of desperate children and families. I've dedicated my life towards enabling others from a trap of dependance caused by poverty specifically, because what else can I really fucking do to change perceptions besides being one person who enabled several others to live independently? Yet it's not enough.
So that's why I come into hacker news threads, throwing shade on the general concept of "Autism", a homogenous condition which caused by concrete biological phenomenon, and our need to cure it. Since to me, it was and always has been, a behaviourist diagnosis of clinical convenience there to serve social ends which gets reified into essentialist bullshit featuring an overbroad label defined by "deficits" that is taken far more seriously than the science warrants which dooms people to stereotyped perceptions, pathologisation, stigmatisation, segregation, eugenics, and warped medical care.
If something should be prevented it's doctors inane, fatalistic, and biased prophecies that somebody will never be able to live independently. It's not proven somebody cannot live independently until they die as dependants, what you describe are only opinions. I have refuted N=1 such opinions already and that won't be the last one.