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Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#71

Post by shepherdjerred »

resolutebat wrote: post #20
IndySun wrote: post #6

Can the BBC reign in its news headline writers and reverse a fairly recent (5-10 years?) policy of juicing up what was 'unbiased' news? But in fact, I have a rose-tinted view of the BBC so I should just reign in my reactions instead.

What exactly is "juiced up" about "Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal"? I'd be hard put to craft a more neutral/factual/boring summary of what just happened. Update: Apparently "crash" is misleading here since the plane was never airborne, it aborted takeoff but veered off the runway and likely hit something since the wing caught fire.

When I read "crash" in the context of flight, I think "everybody died". Crash is factually true, but perhaps misleading (at least to my interpretation)

"skids off runway" or "failed takeoff" would have less implication of death.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#72

Post by aworks »

CarVac wrote: post #3

That's a -300, an old model that predates the modern production issues.

In the eighties, I worked on host development tools used for the Flight Management Computer System firmware in the 737-300. Presumably, the hardware, the software, the tools, the language (Ratfor), the host OS (VAX/VMS), the development process, and my life have all been upgraded since then.

On the other hand, the overall project verification team was as big as the development team. I never saw that again the rest of my career.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#74

Post by Beijinger »

resolutebat wrote: post #18

Unsurprisingly, it's an old airframe (built 1994), operated by a state-owned African carrier: rarely a recipe for good maintenance. It's quite unlikely that Boeing is in any way to blame for this. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/387749

Such a "state-owned African carrier" is one of the few Airlines I would invest in, if it were possible. (Ethiopian Airlines).

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#75

Post by seanmcdirmid »

huygens6363 wrote: post #28
resolutebat wrote: post #18

Unsurprisingly, it's an old airframe (built 1994), operated by a state-owned African carrier: rarely a recipe for good maintenance. It's quite unlikely that Boeing is in any way to blame for this. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/387749

One, that’s not that old and shouldn’t be crashing on take-off and two, the narrative that it’s shady African carriers that are to blame is getting old. In fact, it’s exactly what Boeing always says right before they are in fact to blame.

737s are work horses, and generally fly a lot. One built in 1994 probably has a lot of hours on it, and I would bet it was sold from some western carrier used to Africa in the first place after it had too many hours to be workable in the developed world.

Usually these old planes are put into use as cargo planes instead where the consequences of a crash are less severe.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#76

Post by seanmcdirmid »

flohofwoe wrote: post #52
Grimburger wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air travel disaster rates are basically the same across the entire planet except Africa. You are 15x more likely to die in a plane crash there than anywhere else on Earth. GP comment is on point.

The second 737 Max crash was also an African airline, and the same accusations were floating around right after the crash. Let's better wait for the investigation results before speculating.

One of the issues that came up was that Boeing sold 737 MAXs with an optional safety system that would have likely avoided that crash, so it isn't completely uncorrelated (of course, the blame was still on Boeing for not making that system mandatory, or simply not requiring that pilots be retrained to deal with the lower clearance of the new engines).

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#77

Post by lamontcg »

ceejayoz wrote: post #22
resolutebat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is "juiced up" about "Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal"? I'd be hard put to craft a more neutral/factual/boring summary of what just happened. Update: Apparently "crash" is misleading here since the plane was never airborne, it aborted takeoff but veered off the runway and likely hit something since the wing caught fire.

I’d probably have used “skids off runway” or “leaves runway” instead of “crashes”. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-guernsey-68886071.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-67174117.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42680238.amp

Looks like the BBC title now uses "Boeing 737 skids off runway in Senegal"

Leaving it to look like the HN submitter was the one generating a clickbait headline. Title should probably be changed here if dang is listening.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#78

Post by ceejayoz »

ornornor wrote: post #63
huygens6363 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One, that’s not that old and shouldn’t be crashing on take-off and two, the narrative that it’s shady African carriers that are to blame is getting old. In fact, it’s exactly what Boeing always says right before they are in fact to blame.

African airlines apply different standards of maintenance (read much lower), that’s why most African airlines aren’t allowed to fly outside of Africa: they aren’t up to the maintenance and safety standards the rest of the world requires. Ditto some parts of Asia iirc, some airlines operating there aren’t allowed in EU/North American airspace because they aren’t meeting international standards of safety and maintenanc…

To be clear, though, Air Senegal specifically currently flies to the US and EU.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#79

Post by ornornor »

ceejayoz wrote: post #78
ornornor wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

African airlines apply different standards of maintenance (read much lower), that’s why most African airlines aren’t allowed to fly outside of Africa: they aren’t up to the maintenance and safety standards the rest of the world requires. Ditto some parts of Asia iirc, some airlines operating there aren’t allowed in EU/North American airspace because they aren’t meeting international standards of safety and maintenanc…

To be clear, though, Air Senegal specifically currently flies to the US and EU.

In my experience they typically codeshare these flights and use the other airlines planes because theirs… can’t fly out of Africa.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#80

Post by ceejayoz »

ornornor wrote: post #79
ceejayoz wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, though, Air Senegal specifically currently flies to the US and EU.

In my experience they typically codeshare these flights and use the other airlines planes because theirs… can’t fly out of Africa.

That doesn't appear to be the case here; they have a pair of Airbus A330-900Neos for this purpose.

https://flyairsenegal.com/en/air-senegal-usa-operations-upda...

https://airlinegeeks.com/2021/09/06/air-senegal-flies-to-bal... has a photo of it on the ground at Toulouse, France.

(It is apparently a wet lease, though.)

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