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Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

bbc.co.uk

61–70 of 87 posts

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#61

Sigh, something that would be much less likely to even make it to HN if not for the fact that everyone is hungry to find the next thread to post their pre-canned “damn MBAs!!” rant on. It’s not a Max.

Well, beats most other forums where they’d simply be racist instead.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#63

Unsurprisingly, it's an old airframe (built 1994), operated by a state-owned African carrier: rarely a recipe for good maintenance. It's quite unlikely that Boeing is in any way to blame for this. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/387749

One, that’s not that old and shouldn’t be crashing on take-off and two, the narrative that it’s shady African carriers that are to blame is getting old. In fact, it’s exactly what Boeing always says right before they are in fact to blame.

African airlines apply different standards of maintenance (read much lower), that’s why most African airlines aren’t allowed to fly outside of Africa: they aren’t up to the maintenance and safety standards the rest of the world requires. Ditto some parts of Asia iirc, some airlines operating there aren’t allowed in EU/North American airspace because they aren’t meeting international standards of safety and maintenance. Africa’s air safety record is abysmal.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#64
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of maintenance is done by non-Boeing mechanics employed by airlines and their contractors. They generally cheap out on it as much as they can get away with. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/airplane-maintenance...

Ok. I'm surprised the Boeing MBAs haven't seen the maintenance aftermarket as a big opportunity but perhaps there are laws in the way.

The laws are more laws of economics. Airlines like to be relatively vertically integrated, especially at their home bases.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#65
post #6

Can the BBC reign in its news headline writers and reverse a fairly recent (5-10 years?) policy of juicing up what was 'unbiased' news? But in fact, I have a rose-tinted view of the BBC so I should just reign in my reactions instead.

What exactly is "juiced up" about "Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal"? I'd be hard put to craft a more neutral/factual/boring summary of what just happened. Update: Apparently "crash" is misleading here since the plane was never airborne, it aborted takeoff but veered off the runway and likely hit something since the wing caught fire.

The article itself says “skid off”, yet they use “crash” in the title. Don’t you think they intentionally “juiced up”? Boring summary, really?

Also, they finished the article with a paragraph about current issue despite the fact that there are no evidence whatsoever that link this incident of a 30 year old airframe with Boeing. They could have waited until the incident investigation concludes to make that connection.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#66
post #64
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. I'm surprised the Boeing MBAs haven't seen the maintenance aftermarket as a big opportunity but perhaps there are laws in the way.

The laws are more laws of economics. Airlines like to be relatively vertically integrated, especially at their home bases.

How is that more economical? Wouldn't it be much more efficient to have Boeing support personnel on the ground? Also, since when do customers (in this case the airlines) get what they ask for, especially in a quasi-monopoly situation? I would expect the aircraft vendor to control everything.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#67
post #66
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The laws are more laws of economics. Airlines like to be relatively vertically integrated, especially at their home bases.

How is that more economical? Wouldn't it be much more efficient to have Boeing support personnel on the ground? Also, since when do customers (in this case the airlines) get what they ask for, especially in a quasi-monopoly situation? I would expect the aircraft vendor to control everything.

> Wouldn't it be much more efficient to have Boeing support personnel on the ground?

Absolutely not. Read the Vanity Fair article I linked above; they outsource it to China, El Salvador, etc. where labor is cheap and non-unionized and the FAA can't meaningfully do surprise inspections.

The airline will have approved routine maintenance and repair procedures from Boeing, and reps they can reach out to with questions. When it's a major or unusual repair, they can ask Boeing to handle it; https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-space-magazine/airliner-r...

> I would expect the aircraft vendor to control everything.

It's not dissimilar from cars; most people don't go to the dealership for every repair, because it costs substantially more. Especially not if the plane is based in Senegal.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#68

Unsurprisingly, it's an old airframe (built 1994), operated by a state-owned African carrier: rarely a recipe for good maintenance. It's quite unlikely that Boeing is in any way to blame for this. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/387749

One, that’s not that old and shouldn’t be crashing on take-off and two, the narrative that it’s shady African carriers that are to blame is getting old. In fact, it’s exactly what Boeing always says right before they are in fact to blame.

I never heard anyone complaining that Boeing did shoddy work before the merger with McDonnell Douglas in 1997.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One, that’s not that old and shouldn’t be crashing on take-off and two, the narrative that it’s shady African carriers that are to blame is getting old. In fact, it’s exactly what Boeing always says right before they are in fact to blame.

I never heard anyone complaining that Boeing did shoddy work before the merger with McDonnell Douglas in 1997.

Merger? Let's call it by its name: takeover. Boeing after 1997 should be called McDonell Douglas.

This was a proper Boeing, not a McDonell Douglas.

Re: Boeing 737 crashes during take-off in Senegal

#70
post #11

Sigh, something that would be much less likely to even make it to HN if not for the fact that everyone is hungry to find the next thread to post their pre-canned “damn MBAs!!” rant on. It’s not a Max.

Does the Max have different MBAs behind it?

The Max is a McDonell Douglas, whilst the old 737-300 is still a Boeing. Big difference!
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