Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 94 posts

Re: Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

#61

Post by bombcar »

gnicholas wrote: post #48
bombcar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main goal with the “hire children” discussions I’ve seen is to lodge taxable income to the child so you can start investment/retirement accounts. But there are other ways to do the same thing.

One problem with this is that we have no idea what the tax code will look like in 50+ years, when the kid is pulling money out. It’s quite possible that Roth accounts (which are funded with post tax contributions) will no longer be tax free for withdrawals, for example. I could easily see this being walked back for high-income folks, as a way to pay off the enormous debt we are currently incurring.

That's one of the things that people do plan for - by not allocating all resources to a Roth, for example.

You can never predict all future tax changes, but you can be more flexible by having multiple different "stacks" that you can utilize when you want.

Re: Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

#62

Post by JumpCrisscross »

r0ckarong wrote: post #32
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> learn German or French and then have them study in continental Europe. Living standard is the same If you’re in a position to do this, the median European living standard is a huge step down. (You’ll also need to do extra work to make up for the network degradation.)

> the median European living standard Care to elaborate? What is so significantly better in the US?

How many thirtysomethings in Europe are considering retirement? (Whose parents couldn’t do the same.)

I’m a bit of a mutt, but I hold Swiss and American citizenship. The European economic model is set up for stability, not massive accrual of wealth. One of the things that wealth lets you do is travel frequently to Europe, to see and experience its beautiful cities and culture. But in terms of living space, amenities, access to services, et cetera, an upper-middle class American commands resources on par with Europe’s rich. Rich Americans, on par with Europe’s remaining aristocracy.

Re: Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

#63

Post by toast0 »

citizen_friend wrote: post #20
nostromo wrote: post #6

> [she] retired at 49 with $1.3 million in savings. That doesn't not seem like nearly enough. How does she afford health insurance? I would be terrified that after a prolonged downturn you'd be left with nothing. And Social Security in the US pays less the less you work.

The emotions are no different at age 60 with 5 million.

If you've got $5 million at 60, you've probably qualified for medicare and a significant social security payment.

With $5 million, it shouldn't be hard to cover your medical expenses for 5 years, and in 2-10 years you'll get regular payments from Social Security.

I'm sure there's some people who would struggle with $5M at 60, but they'd need to have some pretty specific circumstances. It should be clearly enough for most. IMHO, $5M is likely enough for most at any age, but maybe not in an area with high housing costs.

Re: Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

#64

Post by fragmede »

nunez wrote: post #54
ChuckMcM wrote: post #5

The article seriously downplays the role of luck here but it isn't wrong. If you live judiciously and save as much as you can by doing so, you reach a point where you can live judiciously without going into the office every day. The common thread is that just because you can buy something, or can qualify for a particular mortgage, doesn't mean you should if you're goal is to "retire" early. One of the engineers I wor…

> The common thread is that just because you can buy something, or can qualify for a particular mortgage, doesn't mean you should if you're goal is to "retire" early. One of the engineers I worked at Sun with told me that once he had enough value in Sun stock he just decided it was enough. He never moved out of his "starter" house (small 3 bedroom) and always drove his budget/no-options economy car at least 100,000 m…

I mean, that's just called being rich, which is great work if you can get it, but kinda rude because not everyone can just pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

Re: Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

#65

Post by citizen_friend »

toast0 wrote: post #63
citizen_friend wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The emotions are no different at age 60 with 5 million.

If you've got $5 million at 60, you've probably qualified for medicare and a significant social security payment. With $5 million, it shouldn't be hard to cover your medical expenses for 5 years, and in 2-10 years you'll get regular payments from Social Security. I'm sure there's some people who would struggle with $5M at 60, but they'd need to have some pretty specific circumstances. It should be clearly enough for…

The math isn’t the problems. It’s the feat and uncertainty.

Re: Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

#66

Post by citizen_friend »

esafak wrote: post #35
citizen_friend wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The emotions are no different at age 60 with 5 million.

I don't believe you. Are you expecting to live to 100?

Go read any forum about retirement and see all the uncertainty and worry.

Re: Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

#67

Post by toast0 »

citizen_friend wrote: post #65
toast0 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've got $5 million at 60, you've probably qualified for medicare and a significant social security payment. With $5 million, it shouldn't be hard to cover your medical expenses for 5 years, and in 2-10 years you'll get regular payments from Social Security. I'm sure there's some people who would struggle with $5M at 60, but they'd need to have some pretty specific circumstances. It should be clearly enough for…

The math isn’t the problems. It’s the feat and uncertainty.

When the math is clear, there's no uncertainty and fear.

I have more than enough, and I don't worry about running out.

If I had $5M at 60, I would feel the same way. It's clearly more than enough. If I then went on to have $1M at 70, I would worry. The earlier case of $1.3M at 49 seems reasonable to worry about.

If $5M at 60 isn't enough, there's probably no reasonable number that is enough, and there's no sense worrying about it, because there's no action to be taken.

If you haven't figured out how to not worry about things you can't take action about, maybe you've misspent your 60 years. But, there's not much action to take about that either.

Re: Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

#68

Post by secabeen »

devbent wrote: post #41
secabeen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is. See pg 18 here: https://research.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/Trends%20Report%... Actual tuition and fees paid have dropped in real dollars over the last 20 years. Nameplate tuition is meaningless as the average student pays less than $5,000 in tuition at 4-year public schools. The average student gets more than $8k in grants. Room and board remains high, but still nothing near 300k. If you have citations s…

> Nameplate tuition is meaningless as the average student pays less than $5,000 in tuition at 4-year public schools. The problem here is any parents capable of saving 30k a year for college are in an income bracket that instantly disqualifies their kids from getting any tuition assistance. Heck back in 2002 I had a mom who drove a school bus and a dad retired on disability and they made enough money between them that…

Tuition is not the only cost; room and board are significant, and go to those loans too. If you take the average loan balance, divide by 4, you get about $8k/yr, which is pretty close to rent for a single student in many college towns.

75% of students attend state schools. If astudent chooses to go to an out-of-state school for $64k a year when there is a state college in your state that runs 1/3 of that, is that on them? Why should the taxpayers of Washington state subsidize the educational costs of students from Indiana?

Re: Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

#69

Post by r0ckarong »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #62
r0ckarong wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the median European living standard Care to elaborate? What is so significantly better in the US?

How many thirtysomethings in Europe are considering retirement? (Whose parents couldn’t do the same.) I’m a bit of a mutt, but I hold Swiss and American citizenship. The European economic model is set up for stability, not massive accrual of wealth. One of the things that wealth lets you do is travel frequently to Europe, to see and experience its beautiful cities and culture. But in terms of living space, amenities,…

> The European economic model is set up for stability, not massive accrual of wealth.

The American system is set up for transfer of wealth not accrual. You can FIRE with a couple millions dollars and it takes just one or two events to take all of that from you without you having a choice. How many thirtysomethings in Europe are buried under hundreds of thousands of Euros in medical and student loan debt?

I think I'd rather pay of my half million mortgage while being protected in many many ways than facing complete wipeout just because "muh freedom".

Re: Neighbors Are Retiring in Their 30s. Why Can't You?

#70

Post by JumpCrisscross »

r0ckarong wrote: post #69
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many thirtysomethings in Europe are considering retirement? (Whose parents couldn’t do the same.) I’m a bit of a mutt, but I hold Swiss and American citizenship. The European economic model is set up for stability, not massive accrual of wealth. One of the things that wealth lets you do is travel frequently to Europe, to see and experience its beautiful cities and culture. But in terms of living space, amenities,…

> The European economic model is set up for stability, not massive accrual of wealth. The American system is set up for transfer of wealth not accrual. You can FIRE with a couple millions dollars and it takes just one or two events to take all of that from you without you having a choice. How many thirtysomethings in Europe are buried under hundreds of thousands of Euros in medical and student loan debt? I think I'd…

> American system is set up for transfer of wealth not accrual

Simply untrue when you look at the money made in stock options.

The transfer happens from the lower and middle to the elite; the same occurs in Europe, where the ultra rich pay almost no taxes after accounting for tailor-made subsidies. (To say nothing of Europe’s own mass of FIRE millionaires.)

> I'd rather pay of my half million mortgage while being protected in many many ways than facing complete wipeout

You’re not at risk of wipe-out from those risks in and above the upper-middle class, i.e the group who could reasonably support sending a child overseas for schooling. (Total emigration is a separate question.)

Post reply on HN