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U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

forbes.com

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Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#141

Post by DanielHB »

komali2 wrote: post #26
Stranger43 wrote: post #22

I wonder why US companies keep pulling stunts like this despite the data showing little negative impact of unionization to overall productivity nor company survival. It looks to be a purely dogmatic ego trip where somehow blind loyalty is demanded even when it's not actually necessary.

I personally believe companies are given way too much credit in being considered rational pure-profit motive actors. They're far worse than that (a rational pure-profit motive actor is also bad because it would inevitably select for slavery): they're typically run by extremely conservative, often ivy-league people (if not in alma mater, then in worship of ivy league culture). These people are trained from the get go…

What you are describing is the ascendency of a new third class of people in capitalist systems: the managerial class. Where once you had labourer and capitalist you now increasingly have people with real power derived from their positions within large private organisations and not derived from their direct ownership of capital

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional%E2%80%93manageria...

It is a bit of an overused catch-all term though, but explains what you are describing.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#142

Post by hansvm »

hobs wrote: post #139
baq wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

employers have HR, employees have unions. HR is corporate police. employers hate the idea of having employee police.

I don't know what you've heard, but HR is not police for the employer, they protect the employer from the employee 99% of the time.

That's what they wrote.

State police == police who work for the state

Private police == police who work for a private entity

Corporate police == police who work for the corporation (against the employee 99% of the time)

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#144

Post by burutthrow1234 »

alkonaut wrote: post #131
whamlastxmas wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police are what shows up when labor strikes. They’re part of the government, not a part of the collective “labor” that is the rest of the working world. As an example, police are part of an association but not a union. They aren’t legally allowed to strike anywhere in the US. They serve the interests of capitalism, which is the other side of the coin of workers’ rights

So they have a union, which is not a labor union? fair enough. It seems like a distinction without a difference for the topic. Some restrictions on strikes usually covers lots of different jobs (e.g. nurses).

There's an important distinction because a police "union" is in opposition to any other workers and unions. The police are the tools of capital, they break up strikes. The cops aren't going to join you in a sympathy strike.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#145

Post by DanielHB »

nolok wrote: post #113
pashsoft wrote: post #103

It seems like most of the "union problems" in the US arise from workers clashing with overly-greedy, abusive employers. The employer generally has more power in this relationship, and uses that power to squeeze every last bit of value out of their workforce. The workforce has few ways to push back against this, with unions being one of the options. Maybe if other options were on the table, there would be fewer union…

> Maybe if other options were on the table, there would be fewer union problems? As a worker, would you join a union for protection (and pay for it) if your government provided robust legal defences for you? Yes. The solution you provide might seem to on the surface, but it doesn't in reality. Let me give you an existing exemple, and one that people associate with strong workers right and yet the relation between wor…

someone down here in this thread said:

> The problem with government (or too-large unions) is that different jobs have different employment concerns. It's hard to legislate in a way that covers all cases from seasonal farm work to IT office jobs to airline pilots. A union gives you more fine-grained representation to address the problems specific to your profession and workplace.

In Sweden government labor protection rules are somewhat low (there is not a minimum wage for example), but unions have a lot of power and a good chunk of workers are unionised. The job of the gov is to guarantee a basic minimum of labor regulations and unions do the rest.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#146

Post by justin66 »

thequux wrote: post #37
jollofricepeas wrote: post #7

I don’t understand how so many HNers are anti-union and anti-collective bargaining. The fact that corporations and billionaires are so anti-union and engage in regular conduct like this demonstrates that unions are pro-worker and ideal for the balance needed in the US and across the globe. Balance is key between workers and owners. Without it we are left with growing wealth inequality such as… - ridiculous housing pr…

I think unions are great! I'm even a member of one, and have been known to encourage everybody else around me to unionize. Notably, though, I love in Belgium. The American implementation of unions, on the other hand, is not great. While in the US, I've run into rules like not being allowed to plug something in because only union electricians are allowed to do that, and that's just one example among many. Police union…

> teacher's unions in particular don't seem to have improved pay or working conditions much.

The difference in pay between unionized and nonunionized teachers is big enough that I wonder where you got such an idea.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#147

Post by walthamstow »

lupusreal wrote: post #72
walthamstow wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of you are giving examples, only conjecture. Bad teachers are a noteworthy cause of poor schools. House prices wouldn't be so high if we had unions. Ok, prove it. Or at least give me some reasoning to go off.

> Bad teachers are a noteworthy cause of poor schools You have that completely backward. Virtually all bad teachers start out hopeful and excited to teach kids, that's why they become teachers in the first place. They are then worn and beaten down by bad schools. Bad schools are mostly caused by bad students, who are disrespectful, disruptive, get into fights, etc. Bad students are mostly caused by bad parenting. If…

Read the thread in its entirety please, you are quoting me quoting someone else.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#148

Post by whamlastxmas »

alkonaut wrote: post #131
whamlastxmas wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police are what shows up when labor strikes. They’re part of the government, not a part of the collective “labor” that is the rest of the working world. As an example, police are part of an association but not a union. They aren’t legally allowed to strike anywhere in the US. They serve the interests of capitalism, which is the other side of the coin of workers’ rights

So they have a union, which is not a labor union? fair enough. It seems like a distinction without a difference for the topic. Some restrictions on strikes usually covers lots of different jobs (e.g. nurses).

The biggest tool a union has is striking. If you can’t strike you’re not really a union.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#149

Post by paxys »

FpUser wrote: post #143

I am not sure how they can "interrogate" stuff. Can't they be simply told to go fuck themselves and do not stick their nose where it does not belong?

Yes you have the right to tell your employer to "fuck themselves", but will find that you no longer have a job a millisecond later. When it comes to an employer-employee relationship an "optional" request isn't really optional.

Re: U.S. Rules Apple Illegally Interrogated Staff and Confiscated Union Flyers

#150

Post by paulryanrogers »

MathMonkeyMan wrote: post #92
geraldwhen wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White and Asian students, if stratified separately, rank in the top 10 academically world wide. Everyone else brings down the average, and it has nothing to do with teachers or how good they are. Teachers in my county are assigned to schools randomly, and yet some schools score 9/10 and others score literally 1/10 and 2/10 on great schools for academic performance. Funding between schools is the same. Teachers assign…

Why do black and hispanic students score worse?

Those kids are growing up in much harsher circumstances. Little money, parents working multiple jobs, homes with flaking lead paint, communities with lots of drugs and poor access to preventative healthcare. It also creates a vicious cycle where the culture adapts to distrust and discourage academic achievement, in favor of lottery odds in sports and entrepreneurship.
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