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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#971

Post by raxxorraxor »

lupusreal wrote: post #926
raxxorraxor wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A democracy is dependent on people having access to information. Free information is a direct requirement of any democracy. It just isn't the only requirement of course.

> It just isn't the only requirement of course. Right, and it's far from the only one the PRC is lacking. If a tyrannical dictatorship hypothetically permitted free speech, it wouldn't be a democracy. The most conspicuous lacking feature of a democracy in the PRC is the lack of legal competing parties and elections, so it's strange to hear that China isn't a democracy because they don't have free speech. Incidental t…

No tyrannical dictatorship ever permitted free speech because it would pose an immediate threat to their rule.

Competing parties is an indication of a working democracy. Theoretically everyone could agree with a single party to rule. Edge case and very unlikely of course. But there is a reason freedom of opinion is a human right instead of the freedom to have multiple political factions. It isn't comparable.

In contrast to that freedom of speech and expression is a fundamental requirement. For parties forming in the first place for that matter. It is a right that can be abused and different countries deal differently with that problem, although the technicalities should be very carefully considered here.

I don't believe TikTok is an essential part to freedom of speech, but it could very well suppress voices otherwise unheard. Even if I disagree with most of them, there is a restriction.

I do believe the decision against it is populist drivel though and I agree that there is a stark difference between China and the US in offering freedoms. China banning foreign platforms is a sign of weakness in their convictions and they are afraid that different ideas would challenge their order.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#973

Post by boxed »

alumnisfu wrote: post #919
boxed wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From 100 000 before the islamic revolution to 8 000 today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews The ethnic cleansing isn't totally complete, but it's quite close. It's nice that the Ayatolla made a fatwa to protect them though. But if I were Jewish in Iran I would expect that protection to fall the second the Ayatolla dies.

I just knew someone would reply with a comment like this but foolishly I decided not to get ahead of it. Sure, there used to be more. Sure, there are obviously better places to be as a Jew. But ... I replied to the comment that said "there are no Jews in Iran" . There are Jews living in Iran. That's it.

I bet there are hidden jews living in other muslim countries too. But that's not really the point. The point is the fear, intimidation, and murders.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#974

Post by cutemonster »

cs702 wrote: post #838
jl6 wrote: post #120

How big a share of Palestinian media consumption does Al Jazeera have? As in, do the residents of Gaza treat it as the main news source? The reason for asking is because a poll[0] of Palestinians says “90% believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israel civilians during its October the 7th offensive. Only one in five Palestinians has seen videos showing atrocities committed by Hamas.” So is it Al Jaze…

Wow, I did not know until now that 90% (!!!) of Palestinians "believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israel civilians during its October the 7th offensive," and "only one in five Palestinians has seen videos showing atrocities committed by Hamas." Are they really so misinformed? If that's true, it makes sense to ask whether Al Jazeera has been purposely feeding misinformation to the Palestinian popu…

> did not know until now that 90% (!!!) of Palestinians "believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israel civilians

I know some Palestinians, and yes, they seem extremely misinformed, clueless about what Hamas did.

I was surprised after October 7 when they seemed to have had no idea about what had happened. They apparently only knew that IDF had started bombing. I might even guessed 95% instead of 90% "believe that Hams did not ...".

Al Jazeera lies by omission -- by not mentioning what Hamas did, and, if it does, then downplaying the numbers.

The Israeli newspapers lie by omission, too: they don't let their readers know how many civilians Netanyahu and IDF has killed in Gaza. Al Jazeera and right wing Israeli newspapers manipulate the Palestinians and Israelis, respectively.

> ask whether Al Jazeera has been purposely feeding misinformation to the Palestinian population during the war

Of course they do

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#975

Post by mmaniac »

exe34 wrote: post #199
afavour wrote: post #15

I’m not sure about “dark day for the media” but it does feel like a dark day for Israel. Once you’ve established that the government can unilaterally ban a voice for reasons of “national security” you’ve essentially given them a free pass. As Americans living post-9/11 will know, “national security” is a deliberately elastic term that can cover anything required in the moment.

It's quite usual to ban the enemy from inciting dissidence from your own population during a war.

In times of war the law falls silent, as they say.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#976

Post by aprilthird2021 »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #953
aprilthird2021 wrote: post #892

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there is. What hope do citizens have in exercising the right to vote if their leaders control what they can and cannot read and hear?

If the leaders do so based on majority opinion, that is democratic. Too many people - usually Americans - confuse liberal democracy with democracy. Liberal democracy is a phrase for a reason - and the liberal comes first for a reason!

If the leaders install autocracy based on majority opinion is that democratic? Because you're essentially describing the government of Iran at that point, led by a Supreme Leader who cannot be voted out, e.g. a very undemocratic system.

Just because people vote for something doesn't make the thing they voted for democratic. Historically people have voted to install a non-democratic government before.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#977

Post by aristofun »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #897
aristofun wrote: post #859

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you show me at least 1 al jazeera article in arabic exposing and condemning oct 7? And at least 2 posts in arabic exposing some of hamas lies or expressing empathy and support to Israel? Even a single post calling hamas terrorists (or at least some of their actions a terrorist attack) would suffice to convince me.

1. I don't read Arabic. 2. I don't much care about what opinion pieces get published in Al Jazeera, or whether they meet your political demands. I care about the news reporting that Al Jazeera does from Gaza. On that score, Al Jazeera is the best source out there.

English articles would do

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#978

Post by nolongerthere »

locallost wrote: post #844
raxxorraxor wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not agree this constitutes genocide. Israel withdrew from Gaza not too long ago. If the attacks hadn't happened, there would be a "ceasefire" today. It is completely contrary to what Israel tries to do, the accusation is ridiculous and lacking any form of sincere analysis and judgement.

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This is simply false: in their own words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9MB9t7WlI

The court ruled that South Africa had plausible standing to bring a case defending Gazans, not that there was plausible genocide. Bringing wikipedia as a source about a very hot topic doesn't lend any support to your argument.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#979

Post by Beefin »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #890
beltsazar wrote: post #845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Israel ranks 30th in The Economist Democracy Index: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index It's not great, but it's also far from what you said "democracy only in name."

Israel currently denies the right to vote to more people that its government controls the lives of than it grants the right to vote for. This is because it wants to be both a Jewish (demography-first) and democratic (equal-representaition-first) state. I'm very aware of why this is the case and the history. This is the current case on the ground. Palestinians do not have their own state (according to Israel), so they…

Israel's government administers several territories with different legal statuses for their inhabitants:

Israeli citizens, including Arabs, Jews, and others within the borders recognized internationally as Israel, all have the right to vote. Residents of East Jerusalem, mostly Palestinians, are typically offered permanent residency status but not citizenship. They have the right to apply for citizenship, though it involves a complex process. They can vote in local elections but not in national elections unless they become citizens. Inhabitants of the West Bank are not Israeli citizens and do not have the right to vote in Israeli national elections. They are subject to some Israeli military law and some laws set by the Palestinian Authority. Gaza Strip is governed by Hamas, and the inhabitants do not have rights to vote in Israeli elections. Israel does not have administrative control over Gaza but does control most of its borders, airspace, and maritime access.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#980

Post by locallost »

nolongerthere wrote: post #978
locallost wrote: post #844

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is simply false: in their own words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9MB9t7WlI The court ruled that South Africa had plausible standing to bring a case defending Gazans, not that there was plausible genocide. Bringing wikipedia as a source about a very hot topic doesn't lend any support to your argument.

[flagged]
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