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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#941

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you allow that to continue in your country? We have a constitution that protects our rights, and among them a right to make up our minds on the basis of an uncensored discourse. That's the other, implicit half of the first amendment: the right to listen to what others want to tell you.

I'm not aware of any country with a constitution that prohibits all manners of media censorship and I'm also not aware of any country that does not have some level of media censorship that it engages in. What country are you talking about?

The United States has no prior speech restrictions, only limitations on the use of finite public spaces (town squares, broadcast spectrum), and restrictions based in the illegal origin of certain materials (CSAM). Libel laws are not restraints on speech, they're an avenue for torts arising from harms proven after they occurred. Specifically, the restraints the US does not have are called prior restraints. There are no banned media outlets or silenced individuals, which would be prior (before the fact) restraints on speech.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#942

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely cannot tell if this is real still. Like, I want to believe you, but this person is basically doing the best Michael Scott impersonation I’ve ever seen.

It helps to bear in mind that Police & Crime Commissioners are people elected by the local population as a sort of overseer of the local police forces. This generally ensures that they have absolutely no clue what they are doing, or qualifications for the job, and hence can be used as a scapegoat, while central government pretends it's not involved or to blame... (And it also scuppered various plans to combine some p…

> It helps to bear in mind that ... people elected by the local population as a sort of overseer ... generally ensures that they have absolutely no clue what they are doing

A while ago I came to the conclusion this is true in general of almost all politicians. What triggered it was the conservative side of Australian politics have been fighting the good fight against climate change activism and renewables in particular for 15 years now. Currently they are pushing SMR's as the solution to climate change. As far any anyone can tell it's a delaying tactic because they know they won't work.

The conservatives have held the levers of power federally 8 of the last 24 years, so obviously Australia must be a basket case when it comes to shifting to renewables - right? As best they have slowed it down, slightly. Australia leads the world in roof top solar, and coal plants are being closed at record rates. Similar examples could be raised for the other side of politics, particularly in education.

Apparently leading the country isn't what politicians do if you look at outcomes, because evidently no one is actually doing what they command. Instead in Western Societies optimising our way around the laws they make. Which is probably just as well, because as far as I can tell the pollies don't anything notably well, and that includes playing politics. That's probably true for the very reason you give, they are elected in a way that doesn't select for qualifications, skill or competence.

That raises a question, as it appears countries who elect their politicians based on something other than competence nonetheless do well economically. Under the Westminster system decision making seems to be deferred to private enterprise and a government bureaucracy that overseas the rules private enterprise operates under. To me that says the politicians must doing something else that is useful. That would be to "take the blame", as you say. We elect them with high hopes, we blame and abuse them for everything that goes wrong for 10 years or so, then replace them with a new punching bag. Behind the scenes the people who actually capable of running the country get to keep their jobs for decades.

In the recent movie "Golda" (which I recommend), Golda Meir gives a piece of advice to an up and coming military commander Benjamin Netanyahu: "they will make you prime minister, but remember the career of every politician ends in failure".

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#943

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza Health Ministry numbers are a reliable floor, as confirmed by numerous organizations like the US State Department. The real count probably above 100k dead so far.

Dont you mean Hamas numbers are a reliable cieling? Why would Hamas undersestimate the number of dead Hamas members/civilians?

They are correct in saying it's a reliable floor. From AP: >HOW DOES THE MINISTRY ARRIVE AT A DEATH TOLL?

>Gaza’s most widely quoted source on casualties is Health Ministry spokesperson Ashraf al-Qidra. From an office at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, al-Qidra receives a constant flow of data from every hospital in the strip.

>Hospital administrators say they keep records of every wounded person occupying a bed and every dead body arriving at a morgue. They enter this data into a computerized system shared with al-Qidra and colleagues. According to screenshots hospital directors sent to AP, the system looks like a color-coded spreadsheet divided into categories: name, ID number, date of hospital entry, type of injury, condition.

Given this, it is entirely possible that there are additional dead that otherwise do not make it to the hospital morgue, those lost in rubble, those left behind, or cases were the violence was so great there is no body to note. To your question Hamas has made a point to be conservative and validate the death tolls, meaning that there are likely a great number of dead that don't reach these standards and are not counted.

[0] https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-mini...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#945
post #699
post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not read the whole thing, I read far enough to realize the methodology was garbage. The article basically says anyone ever associated with Hamas or resisting the IDF is a legitimate military target. Let's try switching that around. Anyone who served in the IDF or spoke positively of a successful attack of Israel against Palestine is a legitimate military target and not a journalist? No, this is obviously nonsen…

> Anyone who served in the IDF or spoke positively of a successful attack of Israel against Palestine is a legitimate military target and not a journalist? This very specific point is made almost always by Hamas and co to justify indiscriminate firing of rockets into populated areas. "No civilians because everyone has done military time or is a reservist, even women" is a very, very common point.

In both cases, it's post-hoc reasoning to justify something they would have done regardless.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#946

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Israel has sat pretty quietly for 75 years next to people regularly firing rockets at them and attacking their people. People that don't accept its existence and have a charter that can describe pretty closely what a proper definition of genocide can look like. Something that is far away from the conduct of Israel, even if it isn't perfect.

Why did they start firing rockets 75 years ago? Did they just fire it to Israel for no reason?

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#947

Hard to care. It's war. Is Haaretz or the Jerusalem Post available in Gaza?

I had this discussion recently and went onto investigate, and I found no reports that any newspaper was outlawed in Gaza. In fact I read that the most popular newspaper is Al-Quds, a Jerusalem based newspaper.

I don’t think there is much of a market for either Haaretz or the Jerusalem Post in Gaza, so I would be really surprised if respective offices care to distribute their papers there.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14631745

Do you have any reports which indicates that Hebrew (or any other) newspapers are censored in Gaza?

All that said, press freedom is definitely a concern in Gaza, however that is a result of the Israeli occupation, which prevents access, targets journalists, blockades the enclave, and sometimes even levels foreign press offices, such as the AP’s.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israe...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#948
post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as it hurts even writing it, I don't think its a rare story there these days. History will not look kindly at both sides here, they really have no higher moral ground than the other

>History will not look kindly at both sides here, they really have no higher moral ground than the other There are four sides here: the Israeli government, Hamas, Israeli citizens, and Palestinian citizens. The first two are the active combatants. The third group were victims in October. The fourth group are still victims today. Killing unarmed and non-hostile citizens is absolutely immoral. Acting in such a reckless…

Compared to other recent conflicts like Iraq and Checnya war etc, the collateral damage in Gaza is pretty good. Israel have done a good job at minimising civilian deaths, if Hamas didn't frustrate the civilians efforts to evacuate or let civilians shelter underground with them, the numbers would be a lot lower still.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#950

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>History will not look kindly at both sides here, they really have no higher moral ground than the other There are four sides here: the Israeli government, Hamas, Israeli citizens, and Palestinian citizens. The first two are the active combatants. The third group were victims in October. The fourth group are still victims today. Killing unarmed and non-hostile citizens is absolutely immoral. Acting in such a reckless…

Compared to other recent conflicts like Iraq and Checnya war etc, the collateral damage in Gaza is pretty good. Israel have done a good job at minimising civilian deaths, if Hamas didn't frustrate the civilians efforts to evacuate or let civilians shelter underground with them, the numbers would be a lot lower still.

The horrendous civilian casualties we are seeing in Gaza are not collateral damage, or otherwise unintended byproducts of the operation. They are the coolly chosen effective means -- along with the destruction of housing, hospitals, schools and so on -- of promoting its expressly stated goal: what the government refers to as "humanitarian emigration" from the Strip.

As articulated by Likud MK / Intelligence Minister Gila Gamliel back in January:

  On Tuesday, Intelligence Minister Gila Gamliel told Zman that “voluntary migration is the best and most realistic program for the day after the fighting ends.”

   On Tuesday, during a conference held in the Knesset to examine possibilities for postwar Gaza, Gamliel said: “At the end of the war, Hamas rule will collapse. There are no municipal authorities; the civilian population will be entirely dependent on humanitarian aid. There will be no work, and 60% of Gaza’s agricultural land will become security buffer zones.”

  Gamliel said that Gaza must not be handed over to the Palestinian Authority, and Gazans must not be left in the Strip to be educated to hate, as that would mean that further attacks on Israel are only a matter of time. While rejecting the PA’s return, the government has offered few details on what political entity it wants to rule Gaza.

  “The Gaza problem is not just our problem,” Gamliel said. “The world should support humanitarian emigration, because that’s the only solution I know.”
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