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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#791

Post by flanked-evergl »

megous wrote: post #776
flanked-evergl wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU has a ban on RT on its books today, nearly every single democratic country is currently or has previously censored media. Without judging this specific action, saying that Israel is bad for doing something that every other country does or has done makes it seem like your problem is not really with what is being done, but your problem is with Israel. This may not be the case, you may not be aware that nearly every…

What you're missing is that Israel is banning foreign reporters from Gaza. That's why there are none there. It also number 1 reporter killing country in the world. Killed more than 100 in the last 365 days. Does EU kill reporters? So stop your false comparisons.

How many of those 100 journalists killed were intentionally killed because they were journalists, as opposed to dying as collateral damage?

And if foreign journalists want to get into Palestine, they have other options than entering through the Israeli border, they can enter through the Egyptian border.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#792

Post by Ma8ee »

lozenge wrote: post #774
Ma8ee wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the scare quotes you put around “the enemy“?

The state's enemy isn't my enemy. Consider the case of Edward Snowden. Journalism is still valuable even if you disagree with the person's motives or aims.

No, but Russia is my enemy, and should be the enemy of everyone who cares about a liberal world order based on law, not might.

And in the case of RT, they had left even the pretence of journalism a long time ago. But I agree with those that say we should not have banned them. When we try to defend our liberal world order with censorship, we are certainly throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#793

Post by riedel »

meijer wrote: post #749
AlecSchueler wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany they can't publicly gather to protest Israel's actions either, not legally anyway. https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/26/complete-censo...

There are regular pro Palestine protests in my German hometown. And they do condemn Israel's actions.

This article is clearly an oversimplification on aljazeera's side [0], which a bit also highlights a problem with their journalism. However, I guess this is harmless against some tabloids that are far from being banned.

[0] https://www.dw.com/en/israel-gaza-demonstrations-what-is-all...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#794

Post by gertrunde »

sweetheart wrote: post #763
gravescale wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not wrong. This is a real Police and Crimes Commissioner and is not a character from the Thick of It: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xlcWVXHv_As

I genuinely cannot tell if this is real still. Like, I want to believe you, but this person is basically doing the best Michael Scott impersonation I’ve ever seen.

It helps to bear in mind that Police & Crime Commissioners are people elected by the local population as a sort of overseer of the local police forces.

This generally ensures that they have absolutely no clue what they are doing, or qualifications for the job, and hence can be used as a scapegoat, while central government pretends it's not involved or to blame...

(And it also scuppered various plans to combine some police forces to improve efficiency, save costs etc)

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#795

Post by guappa »

llamaimperative wrote: post #760
cies wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant to the people living in it. Not relevant to the ideals set forth, which our moderns free democracies are based on. This is fundamental, so it's actually worse than when it happens in China.

Not really. Compromise and nuance have always been necessary features of democracies. This has also frequently been seized upon by autocratic apologists with this framing (“it’s actually worse here because of our idealism!”) and yet autocracies remain reliably worse off than democracies in practice.

Every country calls their enemy "undemocratic"

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#796

Post by raxxorraxor »

locallost wrote: post #667
Beefin wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its not a genocide by any definition.

I would not agree. "In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children o…

I would not agree this constitutes genocide. Israel withdrew from Gaza not too long ago. If the attacks hadn't happened, there would be a "ceasefire" today. It is completely contrary to what Israel tries to do, the accusation is ridiculous and lacking any form of sincere analysis and judgement.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#797

Post by cies »

Ma8ee wrote: post #748
cies wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After rt.com et al were blocked in the EU they also kept working for a few more week/months before I had to use a mirror/VPN to read the new paper of "the enemy". Side note: I though being able to read the news of the enemy was testimony to the moral high ground of a "modern free and democratic society". No more moral high ground if you are trying to shape the perception of the public with censorship.

Why the scare quotes you put around “the enemy“?

because they not my enemy. they dont threaten me. imho NATO threatens them by trying to extend into ukraine/georgia and making color revolutions on their borders.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#798

Post by dunekid »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #753
mynameisnoone wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apartheid South Africa also tried to ban news media. It's a sign of extreme desperation and signals political vulnerability. Hopefully, Israel will get elections soon, and center- or left-leaning coalition government will pursue different foreign and military policies that a significant majority of Israelis prefer over the absurdity of the militarists and militant settlers. https://truthout.org/articles/media-and-the…

Nearly every democratic country has previously or is currently censoring the media in some ways, including the US[1] and EU[2]. Single factor analysis is one of the worst kinds of analysis. If we only consider this one factor, then there is basically no country that is not like Apartheid South Africa. Apartheid South Africa was not exceptional or notable because it did what nearly every other country has or is curren…

I am not sure how many people were surveyed and what were the questions in these. I am reminded of this from Yes, Prime Minister https://youtu.be/ahgjEjJkZks?si=_6nlxJ1okysqH07U

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#799

Post by cies »

Ma8ee wrote: post #792
lozenge wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state's enemy isn't my enemy. Consider the case of Edward Snowden. Journalism is still valuable even if you disagree with the person's motives or aims.

No, but Russia is my enemy, and should be the enemy of everyone who cares about a liberal world order based on law, not might. And in the case of RT, they had left even the pretence of journalism a long time ago. But I agree with those that say we should not have banned them. When we try to defend our liberal world order with censorship, we are certainly throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Glad you come to that conclusion.

> And in the case of RT, they had left even the pretence of journalism a long time ago.

What is RT doing that is not found in FOX, NBC, CNews.fr, Hayom?

> liberal world order based on law, not might.

This is a facade. The talking point the NATO/US/west uses, while they violate every such rule when they see fit. You may be interested in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#800

Post by vixen99 »

vr46 wrote: post #761
AlecSchueler wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany they can't publicly gather to protest Israel's actions either, not legally anyway. https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/26/complete-censo...

I would likely be arrested if I wore my UK-created anti-fascist Football Fans Against Apartheid/Free Palestine pin, so it’s going into a drawer. Zionism has drowned all voices, my Jewish friends are being harassed for dissent too.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/ha...

Really, objectively, I am wondering what on Earth any country X would do faced with a statement from an enemy Y as in :-

The complete and utter destruction of X as an essential condition for the liberation of Y and the establishment of a religious state based on [ Y's religious theocratic laws ]

Any form of coexistence is clearly not on the table. For the context please read the link in the Atlantic article.

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