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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#901
post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what world efforts are seeking to legitimize Hamas? No real efforts. But a surprising number of young people don't believe Israel has a right to exist.

> people don't believe Israel has a right to exist. Israel was created in 1948. If that didn't happen and Israel didn't exist today, imagine how different things would be today for better or worse. Maybe the people you're talking about believe it would have been better. Is that such a radical belief?

It gets more interesting if you start to get exposed to enlightening questions to begin critically thinking through:

- Why wasn't Germany divided into half - 50/50 - or even 55% given to the Jewish people [and force the Germans off of their lands that they were on for - whether they were Gestapo and toeing the line as vicious or blind citizens during NaZi Germany] - which would seem to be a fair-reasonable punishment for Germany's authoritarians' behaviour? How fair is that to do to a population who's society was trying to genocide you vs. doing that to a population that had no part in trying to genocide you?

- Why didn't America - where the Israel lobby is arguably the strongest legal influence on the political system, politicians and policy - instead give a large amount of land to the Jewish people in America instead of Balfour Declaration somehow allowing Britain to "give it away"?

Also, there's an unmentioned sentiment usually attached to to the phrase of "Israel doesn't have a right to exist" that it's somehow akin to "Jews don't have a right to exist."

I think that feeling or belief is planted by propaganda has purposefully conflated - along with Israel state equals Judaism [just because they arguably misappropriated the Star of David for their state flag; one of multiple tactics for the what I argue is full of wolves in sheep's clothing].

Re: Hamas' Charter

Other foundational propaganda that's propagated deep and wide, and even those who are very well-informed - possibly because in reality it's a moot point, as Hamas-like organizations are inevitable to form from within an occupied-suppressed and segregated state of existence:

- The claim that in the Hamas Charter it says their goal is to "obliterate all Jews globally" stems from an arguable purposeful mistranslation, where instead it appears to be propaganda to demonize Hamas and Palestinians via guilt by association campaigns, where the proper translation says their goal is to "invalidate" any UNJUST behaviour - written within the context of speaking of just vs. unjust behaviour - which means any just behaviour, e.g. non-violence, truth, etc. is fine and won't be targeted by them; from my understanding that means actual practicing Jews wouldn't fall into this category but the specific behaviours of the specific heads of state driving towards genocide,is party to unjust behaviour, will be held to account and have their actions "invalidated" based on their Charter. Source: https://jstor.org/stable/26331116

Conclusions,

I think it's critical people begin to be asked into thought exercises to understand just how isolated in algorithmic bubbles we all are - unless we're conscious of that and not prone to confirmation bias - to understand how people could be so deeply and firmly indoctrinated into one set of beliefs, where one side is completely delusional as to the truth and reality; they know only a shallow and misleading version of the truth, but not the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth - so help us God.

The incongruences are glaring as the relatively unsophisticated politicians [useful fools] et al stumble their way through, placed there are useful puppets - and why the bad actors ultimately need full control over speech and communications, or else a critical mass forms against them - and those blindly toeing the line for them in various institutions waken at exponential pace: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5y-lc7RtcE/

Let us not forget: Julian Assange has been being essentially tortured in prison without being convicted of anything - because he published leaks from a violent-authoritarian regime's security apparatus, exposing illegal actions by bad actors - and instead of the bad actors who have currently captured our systems going through justice process - Assange is suppressed as an example - https://www.instagram.com/p/C5X_KC2twid/

Former head of IDF intelligence agency: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5pI0nLBxR3/

The truth is out there.

It now must be compiled and accessible in a way that is gentle enough to breakthrough and onboard the ideologues believing the nearly century of propaganda; this will also arguably take a cultural shift towards healing and developing self-awareness, the cognitive dissonance of logic working towards realizing must be fierce and will harden people in place to avoid the torment they were blindly supporting, so learning how to forgive oneself is perhaps the first fundamental lesson most ideologues need to learn - we all make mistakes, we all can be mislead until we learn better; "forgive them father for they know not what they do."

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#902

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Al Jazeera is not engaged in an "information war" against Israel. Al Jazeera is the major independent media organization operating in Gaza, and one of the main sources of accurate information about the conflict. That's what angers the Israeli government.

> the major independent media Sorry, but you're either completely out of touch with what's going on there. Or you have bad intents. Regardless of your attitudes and ideological preferences - calling Al Jazeera "independent" is the winner of international nonsense contest. Independent in general, or their Gaza branch in particular - it is a nonsense. Last independent people in Gaza were thrown off the roof about 15 ye…

Independent in that they're not beholden to either side: the Israelis or the Palestinians (any faction). They're a major international news organization that has people on the ground.

The major threat to Al Jazeera journalists over the last several years has come from the IDF, not from Palestinians. There are plenty of examples of the IDF killing Al Jazeera journalists, but I'm not aware of any cases of them being killed by Hamas.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#903
post #838
post #120

How big a share of Palestinian media consumption does Al Jazeera have? As in, do the residents of Gaza treat it as the main news source? The reason for asking is because a poll[0] of Palestinians says “90% believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israel civilians during its October the 7th offensive. Only one in five Palestinians has seen videos showing atrocities committed by Hamas.” So is it Al Jaze…

Wow, I did not know until now that 90% (!!!) of Palestinians "believe that Hamas did not commit any atrocities against Israel civilians during its October the 7th offensive," and "only one in five Palestinians has seen videos showing atrocities committed by Hamas." Are they really so misinformed? If that's true, it makes sense to ask whether Al Jazeera has been purposely feeding misinformation to the Palestinian popu…

Hamas has been in power since 2006 and had reeducated the youth akin to what the hitler youth did. Its no surprise many tow the company line. Majority of people in gaza are under 18 where all they know is that sort of indoctrination.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#904
post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel reporting (not just Haaretz) reported huge, multiple, protests (it was at night there, early afternoon EST) due to Israel rejecting a cease fire. Correcting you on this - the protests were not because Israel "rejected a cease fire". For one thing, these are the same protests that happen every Saturday for the last few weeks of the war, continuing the "tradition" of protests that happened every Saturday for t…

You're right that there's been protests. The claims in the post, not sending a delegation, Bibi's anonymous statements being deanonymized, and the protests this weekend being intensified and a subject hostages families spoke about at the protests are all verifiable.

Yes I don't disagree with any of those.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#905
post #877

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if foreign journalists want to get into Palestine, they have other options... First, they don't. All crossings are controlled by Israel. There's a reason why you have a lot of foreign reporting on the ground from Syria civil war and nothing from Gaza. (I noted your switch from Gaza to Palestine, btw) And journalistic agencies complain about this repeatedly. 10% of journalists killed (against 2% of total populat…

> All crossings are controlled by Israel. This is false. Israel does not control Egypt's or Jordan's borders. > To me, it looks like majority were killed intentionally based on that list. By CPJ's own account, that list is not verified: > Our database will not include all of these casualties until we have completed further investigations into the circumstances surrounding them. For more information, read our FAQ. I d…

> This is false. Israel does not control Egypt's borders.

Of course it does. It closed the crossing shortly after Oct 7. Crossing it, requires Israel approval and inspections. The moment Egypt stops observing Israel's rules, it will bomb the crossing. It did bomb it already a few times last year in order to close it. Israel already stated that it will operate anywhere in Gaza militarily, that includes the Rafah crossing, and it does.

That's pretty much what anyone would consider being in control of a crossing, effectively.

In addition, despite this crossing being between Palestine and Egypt, the agreement that splits the roles of who does what at the crossing is between Egypt and Israel as part of Israel-Egypt peace treaty https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/new-real...

So Israel does partially control it even in this "legal" aspect. It kinda makes sense given that Gaza is still considered an occupied territory by UN. Since when occupied territories control their own corssings with other countries?

> By CPJ's own account, that list is not verified:

Yes, that goes back to Israel refusal for independent foreign journalists presence in Gaza. Or ICC investigators. Convenient.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#906

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure how many people were surveyed and what were the questions in these. I am reminded of this from Yes, Prime Minister https://youtu.be/ahgjEjJkZks?si=_6nlxJ1okysqH07U

A better way to engage than to allude to some TV series is to rather look for and present any information that suggests this is not the case, that suggests that there is in fact wide spread opposition to the war in Gaza and widespread support for an independent Palestinian state. Before the October 7, only 35% of Israelis (41% Arab and 32% Jewish) thought a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian s…

I thought alluding to this part in Yes, Prime Minister is going to get across the idea of questionable trustworthiness of surveys. I did try to get the survey details from the given page though, but for some reason the survey page is not loading for me.

Although the protests in Capital against the regime and ministers are pretty revealing . This is a month old link and things might have changed, for the better or worse.

About peace though, it can only prevail with disarmament and talks. And reconciliation. I think we have too many actors, powerful actors, who doesn't want it. Yitzhak Rabin didn't die in his sleep, for one.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#907

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all the misleading news (i.e., positive spin) in the Western world's "free press" that lead to many believing that Ukraine had a chance for a counter offensive (against even basic military thinking and logic). Didn't that lead to unnecessary suffering and deaths during war time (vs say an alternative, beefing up defense lines)? That's just a random recent example. Another older one is the the media going n…

I do not understand how supporting Ukraine can lead to more suffering, there is a long history of implerialism causing suffering so there is a rather large opposition against it in the west. What Russia does to Ukraine is pretty gruesome, it is not even considered a country in russian intellectual discourse that is a bad sign. When we talk about the press and politics these kind of cynical tones are not helpfull. The…

> I do not understand how supporting Ukraine can lead to more suffering

You're not responding to the right question at all. You're being asked about the Westerns media not covering the difficulties, losses, and bleak future of the war - justified it seems by the need to support Ukraine.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#908

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not wrong. This is a real Police and Crimes Commissioner and is not a character from the Thick of It: https://youtube.com/watch?v=xlcWVXHv_As

I genuinely cannot tell if this is real still. Like, I want to believe you, but this person is basically doing the best Michael Scott impersonation I’ve ever seen.

[deleted]

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#909

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's unlawful in the United States, whose values Israel purportedly represents. It's called "prior restraint".

It’s very much legal in wartime, for exactly those sorts of purposes. Though I’m not sure we’ve tested the legality of it in this modern world where nobody actually formally declares war anymore—I don’t think it’s been attempted. (Please don’t flame thinking I’m hardcore in support of a particular side in this war due to this post—you’ve very likely gotten the wrong impression. I’m commenting only on the narrow point…

> during war

The United States's last declaration of war was 83 years ago. Since then it's been all "police actions" or some such. What meaning does "during war" carry in the world of today?

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