Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

481–490 of 1001 posts

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#481

Post by edanm »

refulgentis wrote: post #71
ttul wrote: post #38

Netanyahu's ongoing corruption trial looms large over all of this. If he were to lose power, he would be far more vulnerable to conviction and potential imprisonment. So from this vantage point, the Al Jazeera ban could be seen as an act of desperation - muzzling a high-profile critic as a concession to far-right parties, even at the expense of free press principles, all in service of his own political and personal s…

It was a very strange day yesterday: the whole week coverage had been building up to a meeting in Cairo, Hamas signalled they were going to accept the cease fire. Saturday AM EST, it was reported that Hamas confirmed they were going to accept the deal. By noon Saturday EST, the "Israel-Hamas War"...idk what to call it, live blog? collection-of-news headline?...was gone for the first time in months. Israel reporting (…

> Israel reporting (not just Haaretz) reported huge, multiple, protests (it was at night there, early afternoon EST) due to Israel rejecting a cease fire.

Correcting you on this - the protests were not because Israel "rejected a cease fire".

For one thing, these are the same protests that happen every Saturday for the last few weeks of the war, continuing the "tradition" of protests that happened every Saturday for the ~10 months before the war.

For another, Israel didn't "reject" the ceasefire deal, Hamas did, or at least that's the way it is being talked about by Israel itself. There are many reasons to think Israel (and specifically Netanyahu) may have tried to tank the deal, but Hamas are the ones that eventually walked away.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#482

Post by jakelazaroff »

avip wrote: post #312
whatshisface wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you allow that to continue in your country? We have a constitution that protects our rights, and among them a right to make up our minds on the basis of an uncensored discourse. That's the other, implicit half of the first amendment: the right to listen to what others want to tell you.

Can you openly call for the murder of in the US under the protection of the first amendment ?

It depends. Not sure of the threshold offhand, but I believe it has to do with “incitement of imminent lawlessness” — that is, whether your words are designed to cause specific violent acts (as opposed to just generally stirring up hate that ends up being violent).

Concrete examples: “Jews will not replace us” is protected speech; “everyone go out and find a Jew” to an angry mob is probably not.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#483

Post by lucumo »

Xeronate wrote: post #341
lucumo wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that claim in the part behind the paywall? The furthest the freely accessible part goes is to say Israel "encouraged" Qatari payments to Hamas.

non paywall version: https://archive.fo/lgtyM from what I can see it never mentioned Israel directly giving money to Hamas. But encouraging payments seems close enough.

Thank you for checking.

> But encouraging payments seems close enough.

Hmmm. I don't think I agree with that. It's such a polarized and emotional debate. It could really benefit from being precise with words.

Making everything sound just slightly worse than it is will help rile up the side that feels slighted and it will let the other side just pass the speaker off as a liar. The result is fewer shared facts, more polarization and a more emotional debate.

The truth of war is bad enough. It doesn't need to be stretched.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#484

Post by acdha »

KoftaBob wrote: post #465
Ahmd72 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point to some articles in Aljazeera Arabic that is doing what you're accusing?

If you want to research yourself, here's the Arabic version of Al Jazeera's Israel-Palestine coverage translated to English: https://www-aljazeera-net.translate.goog/where/arab/palestin...

That’s an error page but also it seems like you’re conceding the point if you can’t provide a single link and are basically telling someone to comb through the output of a large media organization to try to find support for someone else’s argument. At the very least, the Wikipedia criticism page would be a good place to start doing your own research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_controversies_and_c...

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#485

Post by VelesDude »

tialaramex wrote: post #466
throwup238 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Armando Iannucci's career has twice now been upstaged by the increasing ridiculousness of reality in politics. One of the reasons he says he stopped making his first series, The Thick of It, was that UK politicians became parodies of themselves. There was nothing left to make fun of. Then the same thing happened to his American incarnation, Veep.

Iannucci's Death of Stalin has the advantage that it's all history - it can't become more ridiculous after he made the movie because it's in the past. But of course the reality is more or less as absurd as the movie, although different in important ways. (Lots of the timing is completely wrong, events are re-arranged, people are shuffled about so that fewer actors play more important roles) but it does have the advan…

I really appreciate works like Death of Stalin that are more than happy to move things around in the name of entertainment. It isn't a documentary so it has the freedom to get creative and hit the key notes rather than pure accuracy. They also just said "No need to have Russian accents, the audience is smart enough to just go with what you have."

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#486

Post by eBombzor »

kelthuzad wrote: post #153
eBombzor wrote: post #61

I'm not a fan of Al Jazeera myself but this sets a very bad precedent. Israel is winning the war but they are being very short sighted among the decisions they are making.

I wouldn't classify murdering 30k+ civilians (15k+ children), dropping bombs on entire families, being caught[0] executing civilians with drones in plain view, having israeli holocaust scholars and survivors describing israel's actions as "textbook-case of genocide"[1][2], the world seeing israel as an illegitimate pariah state, as "winning", but you do you. [0] "Note that this footage permits no room for "it was a m…

I meant winning in the context of military conflict. Obviously not in reputation.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#487

Post by cscurmudgeon »

Ahmd72 wrote: post #289
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_Arabic#Controversie...

I'm not really sure pulling out a controversies tab from wikipedia is making the point that OP is trying to make. It's like citing BBC for their controversies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_controversies

And? Not a great counter point though.

BBC is known to have issues with factuality.

https://deadline.com/2023/10/bbc-wrong-to-speculate-on-gaza-...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/21/bbc-reporter-nig...

But to address your point:

https://www.aljazeera.net/news/2024/5/3/%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%B3%D...

"Russia is ready to discuss serious peace proposals, and Zelensky is rushing British weapons "

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#488

Post by jcranmer »

csdreamer7 wrote: post #379
avip wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you openly call for the murder of in the US under the protection of the first amendment ?

> Can you openly call for the murder of in the US under the protection of the first amendment ? You can not. Inciting violence and calls for criminal action is a well establish limit of the First Amendment, but that is not what they are doing from what I gathered in this thread. From the poster a few levels above: > In the case of Israel, the Middle-Eastern unit were literally showing videos demanding further uprisin…

> You can not. Inciting violence and calls for criminal action is a well establish limit of the First Amendment, but that is not what they are doing from what I gathered in this thread.

Brandenburg v Ohio (the current standard for what constitutes incitement) literally says your free speech rights run up to and include advocacy for violent overthrow of the government. The limitation it establishes is "incitement to imminent lawless action", with heavy emphasis on "imminent".

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#489

Post by jakelazaroff »

bilbo0s wrote: post #389
DEADMINCE wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If worded in a way to prevent outright calls to violence, then yes.

Um. Had cops show up at the home of a child that was on a sports team of my daughter's. They were looking for her brother and took him in. Afterwards we spoke more to her mother and found out that users in game forums had told him he could make these kinds of comments and it was free speech as long it wasn't a call to violence. Well I don't know the legalities, but I do know he was never welcome back at that school.…

I mean, sure, but the question was about the First Amendment.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#490

Post by cscurmudgeon »

r00fus wrote: post #291
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_Arabic#Controversie...

There are no direct examples I could find. Do you have a direct link?

https://www.aljazeera.net/news/2024/5/3/%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%B3%D...

"Russia is ready to discuss serious peace proposals, and Zelensky is rushing British weapons

"

Just a minute of searching directly.

Post reply on HN