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Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

theguardian.com

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Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a loaded argument that requires citations. Since you're making the claim, can you please link specific articles from the Arabic site that make your point? As well as linking which Arab countries banned it and when? It's easy to just claim something, but it's crucial to back your point up front when it's particularly sensitive so as to not inadvertently spread misinformation. You may be correct, but that's why…

>which Arab countries banned it and when? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1980191.stm https://english.alarabiya.net/media/digital/2017/05/24/Websi... https://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/apr/28/al-jazeera-ban... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-egypt-censorship-idUSKBN1...

The first link…

> According to a news bulletin on the Qatar-based channel, Mr al-Hamr said the ban was being imposed because the station was biased towards Israel and against Bahrain.

> Mr al-Hamr is said to have accused the station of being infiltrated by Zionists. "We believe (Al Jazeera) is suspect and represents the Zionist side in the region. We will not deal with this channel because we object to its coverage of current affairs. It is a channel penetrated by Zionists," he was quoted as saying.

This is perhaps making the opposite point I think you intended to.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#382
post #322
post #15

I’m not sure about “dark day for the media” but it does feel like a dark day for Israel. Once you’ve established that the government can unilaterally ban a voice for reasons of “national security” you’ve essentially given them a free pass. As Americans living post-9/11 will know, “national security” is a deliberately elastic term that can cover anything required in the moment.

I know that people in general seems to react strongly negative to government censorship, but I can not avoid seeing it through the light of recent trends of post-truth online censorships that blasted the internet during the last decade. Popularity of censorship is something that seems to go in wave, and outside the US there seems to be more acceptance to government censorship as comparative to platform censorship. In…

Honestly, I kind of think censorship would be a positive thing when applied to people lacking education. Where to draw the line is the issue, but at the least maybe people who didn't finish highschool or get a GED or equivalent shouldn't be exposed to conspiracy theories that they then act on.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#383
post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel isn't planning on agreeing to a ceasefire anytime soon A permanent one, no. But that wasn't ever on the table. A multi-week ceasefire is absolutely still on the table in exchange for hostages.

"We might agree to a cease-fire for a little bit, but I guarantee you will invade you soon anyway" is not exactly what I'd call good faith language. What's even the point of a cease-fire if you don't at least offer the possibility of something long-term? It's a completely absurd thing to say. This has long been the problem, with the Israeli government never offering any perspective or hope on a long-term solution.

It's impossible to disagree with -- we have to eliminate the terrorist military leadership that perpetrated a massacre. Why would they get a permanent cease fire?

To your point, in my varied Israeli media diet, it's well-understood in the entire Israeli press that Bibi went out of his way to torpedo it by saying this simple idea over and over. The only question is whether this show he has a spine (willing to lose an eventual vote just to defeat the terrorists), or that he's weak (willing to lose the hostages to retain his political position) A majority is weary of it because the implementation of the specifics is "we will work our way through the refugee camp and then ???" and they feel they've seen that plan before.

We can confirm this is from an unbiased perspective by noting that the protests kicked up a notch, and the TV presenter outed the anonymous diplomatic source as him, and then perusing original sourcing as to why. (to share something I learned re: sourcing, Haaretz will be seen as some interlocutors as a left-wing rag doing performances for overseas audiences, Times of Israel is better)

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#384
post #15

I’m not sure about “dark day for the media” but it does feel like a dark day for Israel. Once you’ve established that the government can unilaterally ban a voice for reasons of “national security” you’ve essentially given them a free pass. As Americans living post-9/11 will know, “national security” is a deliberately elastic term that can cover anything required in the moment.

> I’m not sure about “dark day for the media” but it does feel like a dark day for Israel.

I would never expect any theocracy to be a bastion of democracy. Israel can't really realize its goals and be free at the same time. Those goals are not compatible.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a ranking, so presumably part of the US dropping is due to other countries improving. There is another major negative change noted though - more newspaper closures and huge layoffs at news organizations. It also sounds like the Sociocultural section might be partially based on polling of trust in media, which could have dropped, but I don't know where to look into that more. The 2018 report you're talking about…

> It's a ranking, so presumably part of the US dropping is due to other countries improving. Is that the case? Do the other countries’ entries in the report reflect that? > I can't think of any metric that would include murders committed by angry men in cartels or angry men with SUVs in India but not angry men with shotguns in America. One such metric would be whether a country’s justice system arrests and puts the p…

Yes, the following countries improved their scores between 2023 and 2024 and passed the US (71.22 -> 66.59) in the ranking: Chile (60.09 -> 67.32), Ghana (65.93 -> 67.71), Poland (67.66 -> 69.17), Fiji (59.27 -> 71.23), Armenia (70.61 -> 71.6), Slovenia (70.59 -> 72.6), Mauritania (59.45 -> 74.2), Suriname (70.62 -> 76.11).

I agree that whether or not perpetrators are tried is relevant to the country, but I don't agree that it's relevant to this metric or to the dead journalists. They don't come back to life if their murderer is imprisoned, and the arrest rate doesn't have any impact on how dangerous it was to be a journalist that year. If they were to do a forward-looking report on the outlook for journalists in each country in the next 10 years or so, then I do think the effectiveness of the justice system might be relevant.

In the Indian cases named in the 2018 report, arrests were made: https://apnews.com/general-news-eb9e0dbcdbab4d93a2d90767c270..., https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/madhya-pradesh-journal....

The situation in Mexico was a bit more grim, but in at least one of the cases the police did make several arrests: https://cpj.org/data/people/mario-leonel-gomez-sanchez/.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDF also kills journalists for sport (Shireen Abu-Akleh comes to mind).

That seems very reductive to just say that as if it is a fact. 90% of the claims I've seen about the IDF end up being just nonsense. I did pay very close attention to what happened with Shireen Abu-Akleh and I think that was definitely not dealt with in a satisfactory way.

Funny how often that seems to happen with the IDF.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#387
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's not a solid basis for considering something to be "fake", let alone to be banned. I could say that I have read and compared the BBC to Truth Social, and decided that BBC is "fake news"; that doesn't mean it's actually true.

I didn‘t ban it and the Israeli government certainly didn‘t ask me for my opinion. They had their own reasons and their own evidence and I only gave you _my_ reason for considering it fake news, which most of it is.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#388
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have examples for Europe blocking Russia? Because all I have seen is DNS providers omitting certain sites (i.e RT), but their apps still work (plus URLs when using other DNS). An nothing of that coming from the nation states as all seems to be due to the activities of private companies doing these things.

It's part of the EU sanctions, EU ISPs are required to block certain Russian sites. But they didn't specify how, that's left up to the countries to figure out afaik. But as you say, some of the what has been done barely qualifies. Here's my personal experience with this: Germany does exactly what you describe, the bare minimum to say "we're blocking" --- DNS omitting certain sites. Spain is doing deep packet inspecti…

It is still perfectly possible to access RT from Spain, even using regular ISP DNS servers.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#389
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you openly call for the murder of in the US under the protection of the first amendment ?

If worded in a way to prevent outright calls to violence, then yes.

Um.

Had cops show up at the home of a child that was on a sports team of my daughter's. They were looking for her brother and took him in.

Afterwards we spoke more to her mother and found out that users in game forums had told him he could make these kinds of comments and it was free speech as long it wasn't a call to violence. Well I don't know the legalities, but I do know he was never welcome back at that school. (Nor even in the district for that matter.) Worse, the neighboring district got word, and they implemented their own machinations to ensure he was effectively banned from there as well. In the end, they sent him to live with relatives.

I wouldn't be so cavalier about telling people they can say things like this. It's like, well you can say anything. But if you say things that make oblique suggestions towards violence, expect to watched from that point on. And excluded from any activities that people believe would provide you opportunity to act on what they now suspect to be your intentions. You can't talk about indirect suggestions of violence against airliners, presidents, or students in high schools and still expect to be able to show up at the White House, or board an airliner, or go to the high school you attend. Society doesn't work like that these days.

Re: Israel shuts down local Al Jazeera offices

#390
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's not a solid basis for considering something to be "fake", let alone to be banned. I could say that I have read and compared the BBC to Truth Social, and decided that BBC is "fake news"; that doesn't mean it's actually true.

> I could say that I have read and compared the BBC to Truth Social, and decided that BBC is "fake news"; that doesn't mean it's actually true.

If you decide that 2+2=5 that indeed doesn‘t make it true.

I have merely said that I found that 2+2=4.

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